Going Green – MCP Digital Certificates Are Here

So rather than having a cool wallet card, we get something that looks like it could have been put together in photoshop? There was concrete value in being awarded the certificates and wallet cards (rather than just ordering them over the internet) - and the MS wallet cards were a damn sight better than those from other vendors that often looked like someone had been playing with MS Paint and a lamination machine. This degrades the value of the certification by a small but measurable amount.

Annoyed MCP, I think you'll like the new digital ID Cards--they're a lot more functional than the plastic ones are. Reserve your judgment until you see them, ok? :-)

Although it's nice to have digital certificates, the problem is, that if you don't live in the USA (i live in the netherlands) it will cost a small fortune to get the real certificates. Just like mcp-estore.
a pen costs 3 dollar , but it costs 53 dollar including handling & shipping. I prefer the old system

Eric, we're still working out the shipping costs, but we don't anticipate signficantly higher costs for you. This is a different vendor than the estore. :-)

Can you order multiple certificates in one shipping?

I would download mine right now, but the Certificate Manager Tool is having a temporary problem right now. I too like the cards. I never remember what my MCP umber is and having the card helps. plus it does look very professional. Of course as I get ready to post this I can download the zip with all of my certificates.

Any chance the orderable certificates will be a little higher quality than what we get now?

I starting to get really ticked off by companies that use "going green" as an excuse to cut costs. Microsoft is among the worst.

So MSL decides to change the names of all of our certs, effectively rendering them useless in the marketplace and continues to cut our benefits to virtually nothing. Remind me why we should bother?

Can you please tell if it will be possible to have mutltiple certificates in one shipping?

Hi MSLearningContinuesToGoDownHill -

One thing to mention is that if this was just a cost savings measure, I KNOW that the choice to make digital downloads available would be different. As in - we wouldn't have digital downloads. It would of been more cost effective just to say - we will now charge for any printed material. Instead, we are going digital. We are opening up areas that were not available from a printed standpoint. The ability to use certificates within email, Virtual Business Cards that will integrate into Professional and Social networking platforms. We are trying to get the coolness back from here is my piece of paper to the instant world of sending a link to a hiring manager or client to show them immediately that you are an MCP. We are still making the paper option available AND we now making the digital option available too.
I hope that you will find them useful and you will be open to seeing opportunity for how this will be a benefit for MCP's.

SARAH I JUST WANT TO KNOW THAT IF I ORDER CERTIFICATES ,THE WALLET CARD WILL ALSO SEND WITH IT BY MICROSOFT OF JUST A CERTIFICATE

Hi Jason,

Wallet cards are no longer produced and cannot be ordered with the certificate. We're looking into ways we can bring back the wallet card, but at present there is no option.

Hi Tomek -
Yes, you will be able to. I know that this was a requirement as seems silly not to have multiple certificates not shipped all together.

Just played around with the certificate tool on the MCP Member site. It doesn't take into account the certifications where I'm a Charter Member.

Also, working for a *very big* MS IT Academy, I've found that the MCP wallet card and certificate have inspired our past students to work hard and they get a real sense of achievement when they get to carry and show off their new wallet card.

As we're holding MCP exams next month, I can see a vast number of students disappointed and unhappy that they will not able to get something that we had told them they should get when they take and pass MCP exams.

Tomorrow should be fun trying to explain this...

Hi,
I will achieve my mcse & mcitp certifications on July 30th. Will I still be able to order my welcome kit including the wallet cards? I don`t care if I have to pay the shipping costs, but I really want to have my wallet card. Regards

Hi,
did you inform the cutomers and employers about the new enviromental impact ? It could be pretty funny to show the "Adobe selfmade-style-card " to an old school IT Professional in any interview.
just my two cents

So, you will still make them available for a fee - doesn't that fly in the face of the "green" argument? It seems to me that if environmental impact were truly the reason for doing this, you wouldn't send them at all.

I'm not saying that I don't like having the option to download them, I'm just sick and tired of having my benefits reduced.

Hi - the new virtual business cards are far from not being done professionally. We have invested heavily to make them something that you will now have the ability to modify depending on your situation. If you are looking to show a HR manager your transcript to another extreme of showing your 'creds' in a social Web 2.0 type scenerio. We will show you the impressions that your card made - for example - how many times was it viewed / clicked on within Facebook or LinkedIN? That is the data that you can use within marketing yourself. Today, the cards are not green and are not digital. There will always be the ability to still put you logo on you own business card if needed (or print the virtual business card).
Also, we are offering the certificates for a fee as there could be cases where it is not feasible for someone to print it themselves if absolutely needed. The overall green of this is not just the certificate, but the envelope, the plastic wrap, the misc marketing papers that were included in each kit. Most, if not all of it, went straight in the trash > landfills.
Overall, this is a huge community with different opinions and needs. I see this as an opportunity to offer something bigger and not increase (actually decrease) the environmental impact.
I hope this helps - and please feel free to share you email address & I will email you directly.

Does this new policy apply to MCT Welcome packs?

I find it odd that I get a certificate, badge and wallet card after completing one exam, then I only get a certicate and wallet card for every other certification. Now, I'm not even going to get either of those.

Hi,

Some questions that don't stop to bother me:

1) Since there won't be paper certificates, wallet cards and shipping cost for MS, this saving will be discounted on the exam cost? Pay US$ 80,00 without the kit is just too expensive.

2) Why this decision was taken without a survey with the MCPs? Many times we receive e-mails with surveys to improve the MCP program. I think that this is a really essential topic, and as you can see, the reception is being really bad. I suggest to make a survey, you we can decide what its best for us.

3) I think that numbers are better than words. I know that the saving will be big, but how big? Since we have today 2,402,263 (April), and many of these professionals already has their certificates, I thing that Microsoft certifies 5,000 to 20,000 professionals by month worldwide. And not all exams gives certificates (for example, to achieve a MCITP, you need to pass two exams; passing in only one won't generate a certificate for that). The amount of paper used is insignificant, compared to companies like banks, hotels, and even Microsoft itself.

Well, I understand that your intention was good, but this will spread a bad reputation to this program. Remember that these type of actions must return a value for the customers. It must be an exchange operation.

For example, virtualization provides Green IT because you save cost on energy and hardware, in EXCHANGE of maintaining the same environment.

Banks offers to clients the option of not send the account history by mail, providing it online. In EXCHANGE, the maintainance cost of the account is reduced.

You're removing benefits from your customers. What we will receive in exchange? Discount? Ebooks? Vouchers?

Regards.

I second this

I downloaded my certificates but there are horrible white boarders around them. How do I get them to go when I print them?

It is ripoff. The real reason for discontinuing wallet cards is economy not ecology. If ecology is MS concern why don't you stop selling printed books and BOXed software first? Is there any prove that those Virtual Business Cards and pdf Certs are more green than paper ones?

I've though you got your lesson with Vista, looks I was wrong.

The funny thing might be that costs cutting might end with less income from less people making certs.

So, I'll get a certification that nobody outside Microsoft has ever heard of and a certificate that looks like it was done by my third grader. On top of that, I have to take the exam with Prometric (I'd rather deal with Al Qaeda) because having two testing providers made too much sense.

I can't figure it out - all of the people that I've met from Microsoft Learning seem so cool, but these decisions seem to be coming from people who really hate their customers.

I think this is a GREAT idea! Thank you, Microsoft, for being a leader in the green movement.

I think this will actually devalue the certificates and wallet cards because we will end up with myriad different styles and format. Let me use the analogy of a college or university allowing graduating students to print their own certificates in whatever manner of style. Such action will lead to chaos. Employers will find it difficult to identify official and genuine certificates and cards. Please think carefully about your decision before embarking on this flimsy green route. I believe once the damage is done it may be very difficult to retract and correct the perception within the community. Please remember WINDOWS VISTA and moreover the customer is always right.

By going green...will the exam fee be reduce since MS is saving cost in producing all the certificate items, handling & shipping charges. What other benefit do we get? This happened to IBM, go green with their cert but still increase exam fee. Real disappointment.

ROFL! Call this what it is: just another cost-cutting measure. "Going Green" is just a lie to try to make us all feel better about getting less value.

I have a better idea. Eliminate Microsoft Learning!

Micro$oft saves money in salaries, web hosting, producing crapy courseware, etc

Micro$oft is more green by being able to close down a building saving energy.

Wow - this is really something worth waiting for. I am just so excited with this fantastic offer.

No, wait a minute - that's not right. This is just a way for MSL to save money dressesd up to look good.

If MSL really wanted to go green, they'd have left the diesel guzzling bus in the barn, and walked or cycled to TechEd

Not as if they really listened to anything at all we said about this a few months ago >:-( but for people who pay to receive the certificates in the mail, Microsoft darn well ought to include the physical wallet cards too.

And how much exactly is that "shipping & handling fee" going to be, at least in the US?

I think this is a ridiculous idea! Not only the fact that it cheapens the reward for the effort and EXPENSE we go to to study and sit an exam only to receive these digital versions for our hard work. How on earth would an perspective employer tell whether the certificate is genuine or fake? there is no metallic seal on the print outs! We already have a tough time detecting fake certificates now.. This just makes it easier to counterfeit.

Folks, give these guys a break. I don't think the MS Learning team came into work one Monday morning and decided to take all of these steps cowboy-style while Sarah yelled "Yeehaw!" with her purple eyes. I'm sure there were many discussions regarding these decisions and they were not made lightly, especially considering that the alternative to these measures is, most likely, an increase in the exam fee which has been the same for as long as I can remember.

That being said, these are my feelings on the "reductions" in the MCP program tangibles. I would love to hear some constructive comments. Seriously!

1. Wallet cards. Aside from the "Hey, cool!" moment when you get your first one, what practical use do they serve? I've never shown mine to anyone. Are some employers asking for them? Can you get a discount or a free gift by showing your card at an MS or other IT-related event? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't see the value especially when the latest round of cards only display the credential "blanket" (MCTS logo, not MCTS: Whatever-You're-Certified-In).

2. Digital ID cards. I haven't seen the finished product, but I imagine it to be in the spirit of the Xbox Live Gamercards that you see people post on their blogs, sites, etc. So it sounds like an interesting idea, but like many of you here I'd rather see a more professional icon/logo/avatar. A "Microsoft Certified" logo would probably be more than sufficient and the most appropriate, yes?

3. Prometric vs Vue, since TickedOff brough it up and this was a HUGE conversation back in the Era of Trika. I've tested with both of them. I preferred Vue. However, having recently tested with Prometric again, I can say that they've gotten far better over the years. Yes, their website still needs work. Yes, their test engine is slower than molasses. Yes, you may not be near a Prometric center while a Vue place is around the corner (and that SUCKS). On the flip side, I've never had a Prometric exam crash, yet I've had Vue exams bomb out on me more than once. Maybe I'm just lucky. In any event, having one test provider make sense going forward especially as we move to more and more lab 83-640 style exams. Everyone seems to forget that other test vendors are aligned with only one delivery provider. Cisco went Vue-only around the time MS went Prometric-only. Apple, Oracle, Juniper and others have always been Prometric-only as far as I know. Likewise, VMware went Vue-only and RIM went Prometric-only from the start of their programs.

4. Printed certificates. Yes, I like the printed certifcate as much as most of you do. Yes, I think that a printed certificate is a great capstone to a huge investment of time, training, and money from a candidate. Yes, I agree that this makes the certificates less valuable as they will be printed on everything from dot matrix printers to $20,000 color laser printers that are out of one color of ink (oops). However, I see the cost savings here and agree with Ken that many people will order certificates that are free only because they're free! So if I take a bunch of exams and earn some new credentials, I welcome the opporunity to select the certificates I want and have them sent in one bundle for a small fee. I do have two suggestions for this change, however: (a) Can we please put a combination logo on the certificates (i.e.: MCITP: SA, EA, EMA)? Right now I can generate a certificate, but only with one credential (i.e.: MCITP: SA). It would be nice to use a Logo Builder generated logo to combine credentials and put that on a certificate. (b) Can we please bump up the quality on these certifictes? Yes, they current ones are better than what I can produce on my craptastic HP DeskJet 920c. But I would really like different paperstock and an embossed logo. Combining these two suggestions would be awesome. Also, one more comment with regards to the varying quality of printed certificates as seen by a hiring manager. Your MCP transcript is the final word on what credentials you've earned. Not a wallet card, lapel pin, cool hat from the eStore, or a certificate. This is the same as it is in higher education. You don't verify a degree by asking a candidate to bring in their diploma. You verify it with their transcript, signed and sealed by the Registrar. Hence the Transcript Sharing Tool.

5. Old Gen vs New Gen certifications. This is a bigger problem than wallet cards, paying for paper, and being green. I could have the dates wrong, but I believe it's been over three years since the New Gen certifications were introuduced. Today, everyone is still looking for an MCSE. Six months ago a friend told me his company was looking for "Microsoft Certified" people. I asked him wich certs. "MCSE." (sigh) I was taking 70-647 a few weeks ago and the test center folks asked me if I was taking the exam for my MCSE. The lady who asked me this was standing RIGHT IN FRONT of the MS Learning poster that mapped out the MCSA/MCSE to MCTS/MCITP upgrade scenarios. (sigh) A guy at work is looking to get into the IT and is aspiring to get his (you guessed it) MCSE. (sigh) I realize that the MCSE is still relevant today. My fear is that the New Gen of certifications aren't relevant at all yet as no one in the "real world" seems to know what they are or bother to try and understand them. Part of me feels there needs to be a capstone title between the Professional series and Master. I would love to do the Exchange Master program, so I guess I have to get a larger piggybank, because Master is so expensive and time consuming. Perhaps some type of real lab-based exam? I don't know, I guess it comes down to this: for those of us with multiple MCITP all we have to show for it is a huge logo. In the Old Gen we had the four magic letters of MCSE. I honestly don't know how to turn this one around.

With my luck, I have spent the last hour writing this only to have my post not be uploaded. I'd better copy this into Notepad first. All spelling and grammar mistakes are my own. Cheers everyone.

Simply a scrubby effort to lower costs. Poor.

Once again MS Learning does exactly the opposite of customer satisfaction. I didn’t think it was possible, but thanks for making the MCP program worse than ever before

if avarice is green
the MS is green

Please reconsider all the comments, opinions and suggestions of other MCPs regarding this matter. Let their voice be heard before finalizing the decision.

Less incentive to certify if you ask me - I've take over 60 M$ cert exams..

I like the wallet card, it's cool, but what about the 'charter member' certificates? or is that a thing of the past?

Absurd!

I'm seeing you have plenty of feedback - this is just another step in reducing the value of the certification.

Unfortunately, the company has a very U.S.-centric world-view, regrettably so.

High quality, printed certificates are invaluable - as many pointed out - for different purposes. Now you're telling me (after I've already paid for my MCT renewal) that I'll have to pay for my certificate? And wallet card?

And you're also telling me you're working hard to make certification more valuable, by taking the actual certificate out of the program and making it a paid add-on??

WOW! Looks like you guys totally thought this through!

I think Microsoft should put this stupid idea back in the GREENhouse.

Here's a word of advice folks:

How about making this digital certificate an opt-in thing?? Let customers (us) decide whether we don't see any value in a printed certificate and opt out of it in favor of a digital one?

If not, you're simply using this environmental-conciousness to actually charge for something you weren't supposed to charge for, and haven't done so in a long long time, nor given any indication of doing so!

Just another example of "Green" = "excuse to remove a benefit". If that's not the case then how about mailing the cards for free upon request? The idea of having the digital copies is cool and certainly adds value when combined with the existing benefit. However, it removes value when you replace something tangible with something intangible. For what we've spent in testing fees by the time we achieve certification, I think MS can continue to ship a copy upon request for free.

For all the money they charged for the exams, they don't even issue certificates for us? That's ridiculous! Going Green? What if everybody request for a print copy, then what will it do to the environment? The only difference is they got more $$$ from us!

Terrible idea, if this change happens then I will stop doing MS exams, I'm an MCSD and MCTS. Eveyone can see this is just a cost cutting measure in disguise.

I echo the comments of ridiculous... This doesn't have anything to do with going green. It is cost cutting at the expense of the certificate taker. If you want to save some trees why don't you also slash the costs of tests in half thus saving us some green. This will help stomach the benefits you are slashing.

Going Green or Greedy...!!! (a good eye catcher)
Sorry Microsoft I just don’t buy it and you can prove me wrong and I'll eat my hat. I am a big fan of yours but sadly think this is the move.
If it's just for going green then give the exam taker the option of either when they pass (their own choice to be green or not). You still see the need for the paper version or you would offer it all (now with extra charges). Surely the £105 pounds I pay per exam covers this cost already.
Finally I teach students and the pack as a fantastic aid to motive them at the end of a hard five month program. I can’t see how I can hang my digital green certificate on the wall, because if I print it out to show them surly it’s less green than a mass produced one and not as good.

+1 to previous comments. "Going green" is a very thin veil.

I'm not crazy about this decision, but I was also a little let down when the lapel pins went away. I'll probably get used to it in time though.

After spending time getting ready for the exams and then the money required for the test itself, it's just nice to get something in the mail for your effort. Being able to print the digital certificate is nice but as others have mentioned it seems that having it as the only option is a little less fulfilling than receiving the printed copy. Another thought - if a MCP's hard copies are lost or destroyed they may have problems printing the digital versions. Some copy shops (still the only way to get a really good copy, imho) refuse to make copies or print professional certificates or diplomas.

I still miss the lapel pins (they made great cube wall pins) and I'm going to miss the wallet cards and hard copy certificates as well. Digital copies are nice, but I don't think it should be left as our only "free" choice after achieving a certification.

Wow, you've screwed up Tech-Ed, now your screwing up certificates and wallet cards. Can you just say why your doing it for the real reason? MONEY! At least you would be honest about it. Pffft... If I hear one more stupid company say "we're doing this for the planet" I'm going to puke. Your doing it for your bottom line and screwing the people that help you with that bottom line....typical Microsoft.

opps sorry for spelling errors above end of a long long long day and I couldnt think MS were so out of touch and was in shock !!!!! Doctor says I will be ok as long as I pay his green call out charge's as its an opt in out service now as well.

Ohh very good!, now I can make my own certificates in Photoshop!!.

Microsoft Environmental Initiative.... hahahaha

I think that with all of the money we spend on taking the tests that Microsoft could afford the cost of a postage stamp, some paper, and some ink...

Another example of waving the Green flag only when it saves an organization money or they can cut a profit from it. Where are you going to apply the savings? If you came out and said you were cutting us off from benefits again, but putting $5 from each certification earned into a recognized environmental initiative, maybe it wouldn't look like such a cash grab. Sorry Microsoft, you can put the green flag away; we see right through this.

I think this is ridiculous. After you go through all the work and pay all the over-priced fee's, Microsoft can't even send a hard copy of our achievement?? I have all my certs on a wall in my office. And this is just plain cheap, and stupid. So when do the over-priced tests get cheaper than, since you're taking away one of the perks???

It's fine if Microsoft wants to stop issuing paper certificates but to try to get anyone to believe this is truly an effort to "Go Green" is ridiculous.

Come one... it's for the same reason banks want to send electronic statements instead of paper statements.

Just call it what it is instead of trying to couch it in do-gooderisms. Just tell us it's a cost cutting measure - we'll understand.

Actually, after considering this more, I think whoever came up with this idea, should get a job with that idiot Louis E. Caldera who OK'd the fly over of the 9/11 site with a 747. You two can just spend all day dreaming up ways to piss lots of people off. SURELY someone intelligent at Microsoft will see the idiocy in this decision and fix this, and hopefully fix the person responsible.

What are the chances of Microsoft actually listening and reversing their decision?, even in the so called digital age, when you go for jobs or get a job, they want to see proof of your certifications, some dodgy printed digital certificate would no doubt get questioned by many HR staff?!.

Shocking, the exams are expensive enough, whats next, no print out of your score to save the environment?!.

Here is one thing that I never understood paper is grown as a renewable resource. I think it is more of a cost savings than a environmental concern. Nice try selling as a green initiative when it is a money saver.

Well, sometimes in my country to get some job, as a company you need to give a proff of certification to your coustomer, sometimes even they must be orginal certifitates with a formal body giving approval that this is right. So if we have 20 MCP's each holding 10 - 20 certificates, we will need to pay a great sum of money to order all of them. I understand that this is one time only, but as soo many MCTS exams coming up, so many new certs, imagine the owerall cost for us to compete in every job offer by some large companys.

Yes the certificates were just for us. I never displayed it to get a job, no one asked to see it. It was for the I love me wall. Now it will be in a file with the companies "Wellness Training" certificate.

Thanks for lowering the bar

While I appreciate they idea, this is a terrible plan! Our printers cannot produce the quality of the Microsoft certificates and neither should they. Instead of having a nice card we now have to store our MCP ID somewhere that easily accessible. It used to be something special being Microsoft certified, but it seems the value of the certification is reducing over the last few years and something like this gives the impression that Microsoft thinks so as well.

Is Microsoft really issuing so many certificates that this can really be considered a "green" initiative? This makes the certificate seem so common that it's a burden on our environment. It doesn't sound all that special a thing to have...

That's ridiculous! You want to go green by discontinuing giving certificates? Why don't you just say it's cheaper and your broke?

I already have all my certs...but if I hadn't received them...you could take the shipping out of the $1000+ dollars you got for me taking the tests! If the only reason was to eliminate waste...you wouldn't charge those that wanted to get the hard copy. It's obviously not waste if they want it and will keep it.

This is just a scheme to make more revenue and has little to do with going green. I liked getting the certificates and wallet id card. It gave me something tangible for my efforts and money.

Silly idea! What about the MCSE member card? I agree whith the writers above, this is typical manager idea to save some money. Maybe not the best idea to do this with the technical front to your customers!

What say Microsoft reduces the test fees by $25 for those who would accept "Digital Only" and keep the test fees As Is for those who prefer hard copy? You could pass the Going Green savings on to the test takers while providing normal services to everyone else at no extra charge.

If this were merely a cost cutting measure, you would reduce services while keeping test fees at the current level.

hi, this is yagyashree from india and i have only one thing to say

"Please go ONLINE"

One the things I looked forward to the most was receiving the actual certificate. It's nice to have a physical certificate in your hand that you've worked hard to achieve.

However this is a cost-cutting exercise and has nothing really to do with reducing their carbon footprint. Microsoft make a lot of money out of MCPs through exams, courses and other learning materials. The very least they could do is to issue a free certificate when somebody obtains a new certification.

This is certainly not a good idea.
It is always exciting to see welcome Kit after your efforts and hard work.
I think Microsoft is just trying to save some bucks by cut corners rather going Green.
Payment is obviously expensive for the people living overseas where the currency is not to strong
This act should be the last item on the Microsoft’s list of going green.

This has nothing to do with going green, as many others noticed.

This has to do with transferring a cost from you to us, which is unacceptable.

I pay an arm and a leg to keep current and certified. I will not pay any more out of pocket costs.

If this is your official stand, I'll be giving up the Microsoft cert game, moving on to other pastures.

Can you tell that I, like everyone else here, does not like this?

I think this is going against the prestige of getting the certification. It is nice to get a piece of paper after completing the hard work required for a certification. I do not mind paying for it, but it seems the cost of the exams should pay for the piece of paper and the envelope. I have an MCSE in 2000 and 2003, and both certification prints were disappointing. It does look like something I could create with very little work, which is NOT representative of the work required to get it. I have several certifications, including MCSE, CISSP, CEH, Security +, and Network +. Microsoft should take notes from ISC2, they make their members feel very accomplished when they complete their goals. The MCSE program ranked right up there with CompTIA's, which is a little unsettling. If Microsoft is trying to go green, send the certification in a plain recycled envelope, no one ever wanted the plastic and propaganda anyway. P.S. the certificate was ALWAYS requested, I doubt shipping and handling will change this. I think if this is the route Microsoft truly wants to go, then the new prints should be worthy of the certification. No more glossy garbage please, I would gladly pay shipping and handling for this. Maybe I would even plant a tree for you.

Hi Sarah,

I agree with some of the points, although not all. Exactly I'm very dissapointed with the wallet cards dissapearing. We all really love those cards, those are our identification anyway.

I think is great to have the cards online, to put on a website or whatever, but you should give the opportunity to order them as you will do with certificates. Because we want both ways, the virtual and the real one.

I hope you can think about this and take it into consideration.

Thank you,

Eneko Perez

What a thinking behind this idea :)

Now I know that, WHY WINDOWS CRASHES !!!!

Just tried out the digital certificate download and in one word I am disappointed
Being a charter member for a couple of certifications, I noticed the digital certificates do not reflect this information. .This is a big let down in my books. Where does Microsoft intend to display charter information in the new scheme of things? I am really interested in the answer.
I think that for all the time and effort MCP's spend in getting certified, they atleast deserve a high quality certificate that could be proudly displayed.
How would people feel if after 4 years of college, the University decided to give you a digital certificate instead of the one's you get now?

Certificates on Paper does have a impact and are prefered by most of the employers, considering as much I have met so far.

However, going green is good in respect to the environment. However, is very alerting for candidates.

I guess, Microsoft should consider the whole world not just US/Canada, Europe and few others.

I agree with the vast majority of people who have posted have said.

It doesn't make sense to remove the physical certificate for the real life certification you have spent a huge amount of time working towards. It just lowers the value in what you have done.

What's next. You'll pay the same fee but complete the exam at home?

It's expensive enough to sit for the exams why not do as previously suggested by giving people the option of digital or physical.

Gone are the days of hanging up your Microsoft certification next to your university degree's if you have to print them our yourself. How tacky would you feel walking into some other persons office with the same certification you have earned but they have printed it off on a $100 ink jet printer with that lovely zebra look.

Please reconsider

funny how the excitement of MSL is expressed in the new green certificates.
funnier how we MCPs crap on that idea.

if there's anything i know about MS and MSL, it's that they're good at listening to feedback... wait. oh, sorry i was thinking of another company.

yeah, i agree with all of these guys. this sucks and MS and MSL takes us for suckers.

I think this is just wrong in so many ways.
Looking at history, we used to get pin badges (nice decoration for work desk), memebership to Technet, etc.
Now we dont even get cards.
Would this mean that the price of exams will come down?
I am two exams away from MCSE and MCITP.
After I get them, I will stop doing certifications. Cause this will be get all the credentials I can get on my cards.
Not getting MCP hardware removed 99% percent of incentives for doing the exams(the other 1% is for employment for purpose)

Hi to everyone who just joined us from this month's MCP Flash! I've noticed that a lot of the questions and concerns you've raised have been addressed in other threads this month--so please check the update I just posted at the top of the page for links to follow-up threads, where you might get some addtional insights into this change in certificate/wallet card form factor.

It is ironic that Microsoft asks for our "feedback" on this issue only when they have already made their decision.

We can give feedback all we want, but Microsoft Learning will still do exactly what they want, just like they did when they discontinued the MCSE, and replaced it with a cert that no one wants or is looking for in the job market.

Thanks again for devaluing what we have all worked so hard to support for so many years.

Oh, and by the way, Prometric has been having "technical problems with their registration system" for DAYS! This means that we cannot even REGISTER to take a Microsoft exam, anyway! Bet that decision to go with Prometric as the sole exam provider seems like a GREAT IDEA now, hunh?

this is very bad news from Microsoft let the MCP holder pay more with same value of certificates instead of Microsoft try to help certified people to get career value and better job try to make their life more difficult

I'm all for the paperless certificate, however, there shouldn't be additional charge for it since we never paid extra before (I assume the overhead for sending welcome kits have been covered within the exam fee). As others have mentioned, it just seems like a cost savings method disguised by the "go-green" bandwagon companies are jumping onto.

Very disappointing. A further devaluation of the certifications for a Photoshop certificate. Thanks Microsoft for making my hardwork less valuable.

In newer post Ken Rosen from MSL have said:

"One thing I’ll caution: don’t assume that a string of negative comments on the blog constitutes a bad reception. With over 2 million MCPs out there, any change make is likely to upset some percentage of the community, and we’d likely hear from some of them here. That said—we certainly are watching and listening and absolutely will pay very close attention to our customer satisfaction reports. We’re hoping that you guys will like the digital credentials as you start to use them."

Based on feedback and voting rates of this post I would say that "With over 2 million MCPs out there, any change make is likely to make happy some promille of the community"

Anyway no matter how many of MCPs are frustrated they won't change that decission. They will continue to sell it as green (even if it is not greener!).

Did anyone take a look at the new Certificate Manager? It actually is way better. Finally you can download those "Welcome" MCTS/MCITP/MCPD certs without specializations and the old certs in their new cool blueish revised form. I made my MCDST and MCSA last year and unfotunately still got the plain-white-backround-ugly version on paper. I may actually print those and replace the originals on the "I love myself wall", but only because the originals sucked.
HOWEVER:
- the cert manager should have worked this way from the start - was it really that hard for a software giant to code it?
- in no way does that upgrade excuse discontinuing other benefits
- where the frak should I find a printer able to reproduce the original shiny-golden look and feel of the new gen certs from only a PDF/XPS?
- "going green" is utter BS, it's worse than scientology

Great - So i go to prove my certification to the HR drones and give them something printed on my inkjet - you must be nuts.

I'm all for reducing carbon footprint, but you're using it as an excuse to cut costs - which is worse!

I paid for all my exams myself and the wallet card and certificate are THE LEAST i expect in return!

Sorry to post twice, but I have a DSE and a TAM on-site tomorrow. I'll let the TAM know instead. Will not make a blind bit of difference I know. But those free exams the TAM offers to help keep us sweet ain't gonna work no more.

"I starting to get really ticked off by companies that use “going green” as an excuse to cut costs. Microsoft is among the worst."

+1 on this...

so with this..

"I paid for all my exams myself and the wallet card and certificate are THE LEAST i expect in return!"

I believe we all deserve to have the wallet card and certificate without paying additional shipping costs.

If we will download it and print it ourselves then it will not make any difference from those who scanned certificates and edit it and somehow present it as their own though there are security codes to verify and confirm for the genuine certs or not.

The motive is good but there are some other ways my beloved Microsoft can go green and i hope by not cost cutting the wallet and certs of the well deserve MCP!

This is a poor decision. Its like graduating from university and the dean emails you a pdf of your certificate. You are cheapening the endeavour that people dedicated a lot of time to achieving. Its a real slap in the face and judging by all the comments here this decision needs to be reconsidered.

The certificate was more than just my document. It was our document; an advertisement for Microsoft & the Certification process. Virtual certificates suggests that the certification process has less worth than toilet paper.

Peter C
MCP, MCSA, MCSA Msg, MCSE, MCTS*3, MCITP*2 & MCT

the certificate is the great thing in being a mcp

now anyone can do photoshop on their certificate to have one

Could you please understand us, the standpoint of those who spend lots of time, effort and little money we save just to take (sometimes more than once) just to past these certification exams, which in the years, the value tangible or not are diminishing blame it to economy or company simply cutting back to get profits sustained. I also like the printed certificates and wallet card, it is tangible proof telling myself this is the fruit of time and effort spent in accomplishing and passing these certifcation exams.

On the other hand, like everyone else once to cut back on costs, as long the shipping and other costs are very minimal especially shipped outside US. I think it's fair but consider another downturn and added cost to being certified. I lived in southeast asia.

Digital certificates are ok but printing them on your own is not same quality as good as from microsoft.

It is easy to think "Going Green" alternate motives, cutting cost. It is good that Microsoft considered cutting their carbon footprint in the environment. But, I think it has been traditioned that we (certified) expect these wallet cards and printed certificates.

I hope Microsoft would set these additional cost to very minimal not just considering those in US, but to every one who takes your exams to the farthest and remote place.

If these things continue combined with today's economy, and as a result I think the number of taking certifications had greatly reduced as of now, would possible cause even massive reduction. So, I urge Microsoft to plan these measures and benefits carefully considering those outside US.

These measures and other types implement seems or look like to me as MS is fighting against those who HOPE to get better recognition of their skills and knowledge in MS technologies. I hope measures much better than this be implement to support those who are certified.

I also noticed there are some measures to enticed students to take these exams, how about those who are certified??

Another thing, in the MS partner program, the benefit in terms of MS partner points given by say a MCSD is same as MCPD. My question or arguement is what would enticed/encourage companies to support those who are certified in old versions to take exams for new versions in terms of company benefits and those who take them.

These are concerns and opinions expressed by an ordinary and regular MS certified person since 2005 (MCSD, MCAD, MCTS-2.0 and MCPD-2.0), hoping things would change for better.

So, as conclusion, hope MS would considerably reduce these additonal costs to minimal taking considerations those lived in any part of the world. I understand MS steps to reduce cost as I myself also trying to reduce expenses, but hope they consider their clients whether comapnies or ordinary exam takers not all of us have the compensation as those in developed countries like US. Also, hoping all of us (including MS) be able to stay afloat and get passed today's economy.

i like to see the certified wallet card to be honoured and be sent out as an indication of being certified, why would the changes make the candidates pay for the shipping while it is included as part of the certification fee ....

Another trendy thing of nowaday's "Green" effect that every company can change the concept of being Green by charging more ....so , where is the " Green" or the "Green" become the "Greed" ? ...hahaha

"Going Green – MCP Digital Certificates Are Here"

It seems in this case the meaning of "going green" is in dollar notes, not trees.

Not cool MS...
Not cool at all.

Hi,

I'm from Sri Lanka. This cannot be accpeted. This is a certificate which resemble our compitence. if it's a digital base will become useless. Anyone can mutate this. Why you, Microsoft, playing with us like this. The other thing is, we have to do exam by paying and again i have to pay to get my certificate? what a damn thing. It'll cost order to here $65.

Who took this decision fool?

Finally, I would like to thanks for those guys, to giving such kind of a support, itergrity and diminish our career.

So if it is REALLY green maybe Microsoft should use some kind of plastic? It would be really cool. That's the thing I wish to have, even for additional $20-30.

this is really unfair.

i think microsoft is trying to go away from its loyality customers day by day.everyone who sits for the exam expects this kit.what is the use of doing exam with paying a high cost,but you dont get atleast a paper certificate.

my final verdict-

ITS HIGH TIME TO MIGRATE TO "JAVA"

Hi,
Although digital approach seems to be quite useful, but in my personal point of view it is not all the matter of going GREEN!
GREENness had become a plea for charging MCPs more, unfortunately!

Where r u old M$ :(

Cheers,

Please don't tell me you're doing this for our planet. You're doing this to cut your costs...

This is really unfair!

Disappointing...

However, there is a way to make it right.
It will be fair if I have a choice: pay reduced fee for digital certificate or pay the same fee as I paid before for paper certificate/wallet card etc.

Are you really going to reduce exam fee?

In the spirit of Bill Maher:

NEW RULE:
You cannot cut a certification benefit in the name of being green.
Particularly when all your customers know it's simply an effort at SAVING green.

Come on Microsoft - do you really think IT pros are that stupid they wouldn't see through this?

If this is REALLY about going green and saving the planet - here are some suggestions:
- Sell Kindle/PDF versions of your courseware. However, you must pass on the savings to the customer/student. This not only saves the planet, but saves customers money as well.

- Understand that certificates are sacred for a very large cross-section of your customers. As many many folks above have noted, we take pride in our certifications and cannot see it devalued by having the so-called "Photoshop certificates" floating around.

WE TAKE PRIDE IN OUR ACHIVEMENTS AND HARD WORK TO GET A CERTIFICATIONS. PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OUR PRIDE AWAY!

Trying to fool? If you have soft copy of certificates than you can print 100s or 1000s (modified/pirated)copy of that. Will it "GOooooinG Greeeen"? Thats why people says MS means Ctrl+Alt+Del="GOooooinG to Hell".
If realy want "Going Green" think carefully before you............!

Hi,
The current paper certificate and wallet card should not be stopped, if it required any additional shipping charges that should be included in the exam fee.
Whoever, writes the exam waits for this certificate to nock at his/her door step, and this will be a kind of appriciation when one receive this for what they have achieved. However, option for the digital certificate can be included.

The color ist wrong!
I dont get the right color when downloading MCTS certificates the color is an ugly yellow green and not some kind of brown in the real printed ones!!
How do i adjust that?

Hi.
A good environmental idea.
I am not totally against the idea.
But think about that.Microsoft owner is already making plenty of money.So what about those candidates in under developed countries like Bangladesh,and other parts of the world.They pay for the exam/tuition/technologies fees and now for their certificates.That's not fair.Either reduce exam cost or leave it to the current system.To make me pay for my certificate makes me feel that my certificate is "value-less" i.e. my certificate is not like a "come and go paper".I will keep it for the rest of my life and in a safe place to preserve it.If i were to throw it away, then charging me would be totally correct.

My regards.

I agree with going GREEN.
But or you reduce prize or you offer a free on-demand shipping of welcome kits.

Otherwise is going GREED.

I find this measure really bad. The arguments are up there nothing else to add.

And you got about 99% negative feedback, so what should you do?

Bad decission Microsoft. It's a shame to put this up as a environmental concept. Because as I understand from you Newsletter that I can still order it for a fee! Rediculous! Your popularity in certifications is going down right now.

One more thing,

People pay for the certifcate not for the transcript. Not sending the certificate will be a huge blast for Certificiation.

By the way, read the article that starts with "MCP program has to save money."

It is clear the decision was made on Money and green is h¡just the perfect excuse.

http://blogs.technet.com/mslcommunity/archive/2...

After I paid a lot of money for my education and your exams I have to pay a shipping and handling fee or I can go with a simple black and white laser printed certificate????

And to say you do this to going green is a great Shame for me as a Microsoft Partner. You send out worthless papers in big envelopes worldwide and you stop to send certificates to save resources.

That's the end of my exams with you and the next is my last!

Reimund Lube, Germany, MCSE +S, Small Business Specialist, MCITP Server 2008 Enterprise Administrator

We can't agree with this decision... A digital certificate has no value, everyone could present it (just a bit of work on Photoshop :P ).
And what about if you need to print it? We print a MS certificate on an A4 normal paper? Absurd...
Actually Microsoft Certifications costs a lot (here in Europe, 140 Euro for an exam) and now we've also to pay in order to have a paper certificate?
And someone of you has thinked about the shipping cost if you're outside USA?
You're on the wrong direction... I know that you've to reduce costs, but this not the way to do! The only result you could obtain by doing this is to reduce the value of MS certifications.

If microsoft does not wants to print and send our certificates then it should reduce exam fee. Because Microsoft is going to save money. I do not like the idea and I will try my best not to go for another Microsoft's exam until it is necessary!

am completely and 100% against this going digital idea, let MS come up with a better strategy to go green but no deciding on our behalf. It could be fine for MCPs in America and Europe but not down here in Africa. Our human resource managers will always want to see that physical certificate with Bill's or Ballmer's signature plus the plastic card, they have a reasoning that anything can be smartly changed while still in soft copy format (Photoshop geeks know what l mean). We've actually been ordering for our certificates for a while now but after ages without delivery, after those many papers and payments you want to decide for us now? Bill Gates should get back to MS and set things right. Otherwise many guys who have always wanted to one day own a MS wallet card are going to resort to other options, this is Africa, you guys should not make decisions minus getting to put that into consideration. Thanks

I have to agree with most people here - one paper certificate for months of work is not asking too much. The "going green" justification is tenuous at best.

It's unethical to dress something up as trying to be green, when in fact its a money saving excercise. What about the rest of the unsolicited mail Microsoft sends out?
Come on Microsoft, don't BS the world, you can be better than that.

As someone who is very close to completing there MCSE this is a real body blow as as much as I wanted the "prestige" receiving the physical certificate and card itself are something that I have used to give myself a little extra boost in times of dispair (reading MSPress books can be hard work).

This decision is in no way going green, making people themselves print these out produce just as much waste and a poorer quality (which you must keep in mind is representive of your hard working technical representatives and elite unpaid foot soliders in interviews and consultancies - ie the people implementing your products), lets face it, this is nothing more than a cost cutting measure, and really is cutting off the noses of people who still bother with the high cost of certification, despite it's declining value in the market place due to MS's lack of success in stopping braindumpers, I mean just type in the number of any exam and its impossible to find a page with a geniune link as its all braindump sites (try certforums.co.uk or techexams.net for legit sites), MS could easily get these closed down im sure it would take one person working part time to do this (result better techs as they have actually learned the material)!
Instead we get MS (shortsightedly) cutting back on the rewards for the people who work hard to gain certification and do a good job in keeping their products on networks around the globe.

This is poor customer relations.

In closing, can I assume the prices of exams are coming down to compensate for the savings made for the welcome kits which no doubt in reality we paid for?

In this case...I did my last exam yesterday.
I'm not going to pay for a certificate, already paid 140,- for the exam!

- Paying 80 EUR (110$) for the Original Microsoft Training book in German
- spending lot of time to get familiar with the Microsoft technology
- taking exam for 140 EUR (195 $) to prove your microsoft skill and then you don't even get a wallet card and printed certificats from microsoft!

Oh, I forgot. You could get them when you pay for shipping and handling. Not included in the 300$ every certification costs when you learn on your own.

Microsoft should go an other way and honor the efforts every candidat has with a little gift like pencils, caps...

140 eur for exam and now we have to pay for the certificate ??thiefs. going green ??? sure, the dollar bills are green

I am an MCPD (.NET 2.0) and think the idea of "digital" certificates is quite ridiculous. It seems that using the "going green" excuse, MS is fooling professionals, who really work hard and obtain certifications. Does a "digital" version of a certificate hold the same value as a tangible "hard-copy"? I really doubt it... And I would surely not be upgarding my certification to .NET 3.5 after hearing of this decision...

I passed my 1st exam last week and I don't want to pay for a certificate. I'm not going to take any more exams if I need to pay for this!

Pascal

Another COST CUTTING exercise under the pretence of going green, you make me sick. Have servers running 24/7 to support "green" LOL initiatives is hardly very green?

GREEN lol - pay the same fee but get a ^%&^%&*^)@!@ looking digital certificate - very dissapointed

Dear all,

It seems to me that we are sharing exactly the same sentiments. Imagine if my university turned back to me and told me "We are deeply sorry but you can't have your degree in paper, we are going green.."
I would definitely go green in seconds. It is nice to go "green" and still offer the same paperwork, by paying for it! So I'm a green company, but if you pay for it, I'm not green.
We live in a world were being acknowledged for your efforts, is a part of our system. One of the reasons that someone would go under the certification scheme, would be just for that piece of paper hanging on their wall. Even so, the whole certification scheme is about being acknowledged. S
o I will be acknowledged by saying that I’m this, or that or the other. Or please visit that website to see my certification, or you can see my certification, I know it looks bad but I was running out of ink when I printed it and so on and so forth.
Green is good, green is nice. Let not hide behind green. It makes green look bad, and us, the company even worst.
Best regards,
IT

I also desagree; I should have the possibility to order my hard copy at no cost and, if I feel "green", just download the digital certificate.

I keep all my certificates since my MCP debut at VB6 and I wish to continuing doing so. It's not just a piece of paper, but a recognition token for my study efforts, I can share with my partners, employees and my family too.

You should to share responsability; offer choices and professionals will do their part, as their personal preferences.

You could, for example, to incite MCP professionals to *neutralize* their emissions, inviting them to plant a tree for each certification and sharing a picture. Maybe this is a better way to help the planet.

At bottom line, it's sound like a greed, not a green initiative, as David said.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Sounnds like another in a bubble decision. Get off the Green Movement already! The previous posts are right, this seems to be a movement to just save costs. I think if you look at the Pro vs Con ratio, you'll see that you missed the target on this one. If you can continue the current paper certificate and wallet card and digitalize the rest.... I think this would be acceptable to most.... Otherwise move Microsoft HQ away from the West Coast.... San Franciso and Cailf are starting to rub off on you.

It all looks like a way to CHARGE us for more expenses ..
So instead of playing the environment issue why not be frank and say: "You will have to pay extra fees for shipping and handling to get your certificate!!"
Common .. leave the environment alone .. and focus on more serious matters ..

Dear all,
It seems to me that we are sharing exactly the same sentiments. Imagine if my university turned back to me and told me "We are deeply sorry but you can't have your degree in paper, we are going green.."I would definitely go green in seconds. It is nice to go "green" and still offer the same paperwork, by paying for it! So I'm a green company, but if you pay for it, I'm not green.We live in a world were being acknowledged for your efforts, is a part of our system. One of the reasons that someone would go under the certification scheme, would be just for that piece of paper hanging on their wall. Even so, the whole certification scheme is about being acknowledged. So I will be acknowledged by saying that I’m this, or that or the other. Or please visit that website to see my certification, or you can see my certification, I know it looks bad but I was running out of ink when I printed it and so on and so forth.Green is good, green is nice. Let not hide behind green. It makes green look bad, and us, the company even worst.
Best regards,

Saving the environment is imho. a cheap argument to save costs.
Professional printed certificates are often necessary when applying for a job in Austria and can´t be replaced with cheap self-prints.

Also the Action Packs are medialess distributed in the near at the same price. € 190,- shipping costs extra for the same standard as now ist exorbitantly high.
We don´t like that ideas!

Oops MSL... Bad Idea!! However, Innovative. I suggest you provide the digital thing as a supplementary first to see how it goes, and let time determine a full transition.

Well, seems like microsoft has come up with a new way to cut down cost. If they really want to save environment or so called go green they should provide with both options of digital as well as Hard Copy at no extra cost. It's a open truth if you want a certificate by post PAY FOR IT. Very Bad.

Well, we all know that this is just a way for microsoft to make more money, so they sayed what we gonna do? alright, we'll gonna say that we support the environement, and the evidence for that, that now if you wanna a paper-cert u have to pay for it, so it just business that's all.

I have completed my MCSE and aready have my physical certificate and my wallet (plastic)card posted. The truth is that if i had heard about this issue before commencing the program and realised that at the end nothing would be given except digital print out, i tell you i dont think i would have bothered myselt to go beyond MCP.

The issue is that when those things are posted to you, you feel great and honour that you have not laboured in vain.

Moreover, only few orgnisations (may be in advanced nations) will recognise the digiter whatever while greater percent of them out there will still demand for your hard copy even with original certificate.

So, i suggest that neither the wallet ID card nor the hard copy should be stopped because of colour variation from different printers. People should also decide on their own on what type of format they perfer without paying extra charge.

We have laboured and paid so much in becoming certified and such a token from microsoft should not be seen as a favour. IT IS OUR RIGHT. ALLOW US TO DECIDE.

(NIYI from Nigeria)

You're kidding right? I've been an MCSE since 1999. One would think with the amount of MONEY Microsoft has made out of me DIRECTLY (the courseware, the exam prep guides, Exam Fee's, the software), you'd be able to spring for a few cents for a card and printed Certificate!

Not to mention the money my certification has brought Microsoft indirectly (ie, recommending all those pesky Novell boxes move to NT4, back in 1999; or that Management of Internet + Email and etc could be better managed with ISA + Exchange, rather than the harder to manage Linux option, or the HUGE thin client/Terminal Server Rollout, etc, etc).

No way, it was bad enough when Microsoft stopped the free year of Technet when you got your MSCE (in 2000 or 2001?) and replaced it with a 'discount'; ripping us off for a plastic card and Certificate and calling it green, is really LAME!

And anyway, how can MS claim to be going green anyway? Modern MS Software comes packed in FAR MORE PLASTIC than it ever did! Gone are the nice, Biodegradable Boxes! If you want to go green, why not look at changing your packaging first?!?! Oh hang on, that might affect marketing!

How come Universities (far more strapped for cash and 'thinking green' than MS will ever be) can give their students a student card. Or the Roads and Traffic Departments of many states/countries (who issue many more cards than MS ever will) don't feel the need to 'go green'? (In fact, that would be funny, get your licence and you're responsible for taking your pic with your web cam, then photoshop up your licence! Thats going to work!)


No, Im sure Microsoft would not buy into a scheme where we the IT professionals decided not to pay for exams, because we're 'going green' and dont want to use that nasty 'paper money'...

But if MS was really committed to this, the first thing they would do is STOP producing as many MS Press titles and offer them for free download to any MCP or higher - that would save so much more paper! But in reality, they cant do that, as MSPress generates revenue - cards and certificates don't (directly)...

I dont know, this whole scheme sticks and, as has been said, is obviously nothing more than a cost cutting measure - MS is not 'going green' in any of the area's that have a larger footprint.

Pathetic!

Oh and in addition to above comments, seems you're idea is getting SMACKED by every MCP, MCSE, MCT, MCSD and MCx here!

Not looking good, is it!

If the post had been honest, up front and said "Look, either we need to increase exam fees or save money elsewhere" then there would have been at least some respect rather than the inevitable derision due to trying to disguise cost-saving as "green".

The honest post at http://blogs.technet.com/mslcommunity/archive/2... that someone pointed out is a breath of fresh (green!) air in comparison.

Having worked at a training organization, I can say that receiving their first "Welcome Pack" through the post on achieving their first certification was always motivating for the students and an incentive for them to progress to the next level of certification.

Paying about 200 euro for an exam and a book. Learning for weeks, testing in a virtual enviroment.
Preparing and actually making the exam.

So I pay alot of money, spend alot of time.. and what do I get to show for it.. Something I have to print myself? WTF.

Currently I own 20 certifications, including 4x MCITP. Maybe it's time to switch to Citrix certifications and stop getting MS certified altogether..

From now on.. it's learning a bit more about Adobe Photoshop and having every M$ certification I want in less the 5 minutes.

That's cost effective... Thanks M$ when this is how you treat your loyal members, I will stop getting M$ certified!

As other forerunners I hate the idea of digital certificates too. M$ is again being cheap, masking it by jabbering about ecological responsibilities.

The arguments were already told:
- Digital certificate looks cheap, you can't really impress employer or anybody else
- To most people digital certificates are not trustworthy enough, verifying their genuinity is a pain
- So we have to order the physical copy, but this is for me as a foreigner outrageously expensive
- I pay pretty hefty amount of money for the exams - why the heck can't I get back an equal value?!

It is end of MS fiscal year and new "green" digital certificates are from next fiscal year. I guess the only way to show them that it wasn't right decision is by making next year less "green" (dollar color) for them. Even then I doubt they will revert this decision like they haven't corrected other wrong decisions from past. So leave your last comments, don't expect and let them ruin MSL.

MS Going Greed!

Haha check this out:

http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/05/welcome-...

That shows how much they care about our planet.

I starting to get really ticked off by companies that use “going green” as an excuse to cut costs. Microsoft is among the worst.

^^^^
Best quote so far!

Going Green by bus

http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/05/get-on-t...

Next week they have the following anouncement :

MCP Exams to take place on etch a sketch, in order to save the enviroment you will have to answer a series of questions (printed on recycled card and pulled from a box to randomise them)using an etch a sketch this will then be marked by the receptist at the test centre and shaken ready for reuse by the next candidate.

This allows enviromental savings with no enviromental impact due to the electricity used during the exams.

Really stupid idea - admit your wrong and whilst your at it give us back our pin badges!

I find only one good thing in that decision and all previous decisions: there is nothing left that they "optimize" and make "better". So it shouldn't be any worser from now.

I hope they won't prove that i was wrong.

4478.5 miles of going green with the bus http://tinyurl.com/dxdumo

What a joke. Someone puts in that much time send them a certificate. Trees grow back, although if we keep trying to reduce CO2 maybe they will slow down :)

Hey, I have had a good customer relationship with MSL, but I can't help thinking that they should have consulted with thier clients before going down the green path.

It looks like most people are against it. It also looks like most people think MSL are just trying to cut costs and are not as interested in the environment as they say they are.

Personally, I am not decided yet. I beleive that a digital certificate would be indespensible in some regards, ie. you could sent it off with your CV & cover letter to prospective employers, etc. Maybe MSL should still sent us the physical certificates and cards as well as digitally.

Regards

I teach at an Microsoftr IT Academy in Louisiana. My students would prefer to have a package sent to them. When they pass the first MCP, often they came into class with the package, which inspires other student to take a Certification Exam. I believe this is a BAD DEAL and will afftect future Certifications.
I also believ Going Green is a coverup for the real issue. Saving a buck.

Not fair!
You are removing benefits from us and give nothing in exchange.

Ruben Markosyan
Microsoft® Certified Solution Developer for Microsoft .NET
Microsoft® Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS)
Microsoft® Certified Dynamics

I can't belive you are doing this, how much are you really going to save? And since now we will have to pay if we want an "official" looking paper cert and id card, are the microsoft exam prices going to be lower?

FAIL. This is ridiculous. I can't even get a welcome kit without paying more money out of pocket.

Maybe the DMV will let me photoshop my license...or how about a passport? Yea, maybe I can photoshop me one of those while I'm building my MCP certificate.

I think that is good that everyone is doing their part on going green, but i think that if i earned my MCP and IF i need Microsoft Kit should be ship FREE! how it was until now.

Hello Microsoft !!!!

What the *** are you guys thinking. Being certified is not only about getting education, but it is also a importent piece og paper, when applying for a new job.

It´s vital to prove the accuried sills, with a valid document, and not a easy to fake electronic home printed document.

I strongly recommend Microsoft to make it free to get a valid document.

-Paying $12,000 for my IT clases
-Going without sleep for months to past all the tests
-watching how my Microsoft Certifications are being printed in a Dot Matrix Color Printer
PRICELESS

What a crock! Microsoft is hiding behind the green movement to stop giving certificates. I hate it. Why dont you stop selling paper books study material and just give the study guides out digitally for free?
Stupid Tree Huggers
GREED GREED GREED GREED

Well I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks this is a bunch of bull!!! I too have put a lot of time and money to get the same certs that for years my IT department didn't look twice at. Now that they're practically REQUIRED just to get your foot in the door, Microsoft decides to let us print our own??

Snap out of it!!! We're paying you to help support your products, and you want to save a few bucks on each of the certs we get?? Does that mean our certs aren't worth the paper they used to be printed on??

Leave at least part of the classical system!
Certificates MOTIVATION is more than what I can print!

It seems like Microsoft is playing around with the us GUYS. We need the certificates to be originally printed by Microsoft and delivered to the candidates. Everyonr needs to fill up their CVs. Atleast first copy should be posted and then afterwards..digitally available. Atleast use the biodegradable materials...dont be cheap!!

Hello to all..

Please do this more slow, we are evangelistas, so you need take care about us, we inspire to other people to take this way, if we are not happy we not recomended to MS.......be careful

This digital certificate is not good enough for a high level programme such as this. Looking at the amount of money that is paid for the exam, i don't see any reason why people should be charged for ordering certificates. This process (digital certificate) is not the best. Microsoft should be thinking of how to upgrade the standard to the paper certificate and not changing it to digital certificate.

The rot has already set in. When I received my first welcome kit it came with certificate, wallet card and lapel pin. When I attained my MCSA, the welcome kit no longer contained a lapel pin despite being listed on the contents sheet. According to MS the vast majority of certified professionals didn't want a lapel pin. Personally I was very disappointed about the lack of a pin. Now the wallet card is going digital as is the certificate. Here in the UK many employers stipulate that both the wallet card and origonal certificates are brought to the interview for inspection. This will cause numerous problems. Perhaps in the future instead of making changes and asking for feedback, you could ask for our views before making unpopular choices. If you really want to go green, make your software for download only and save on the printed media, packaging and cds/dvds, that would make a significant difference. On a side note, like the majority of mcps I have all 7 of my ms certificates in the origonal packaging.

MS Arrogance...What MS tree hugger brought this idea to the table? Give it back MS...Give it back

I think Certificates should still be packaged in order to maintain its authenticity and quality . This initiative only gives an indication that microsoft is focused on money making and customer service is not of prime importance as it should be.
Also bear in mine that the print quality of the certificates can never be the same and you can imagin what image that will give.
Please rethink over the initiative.

Great !!!

I will not take 6 exams to get my MCPD Enterprise for .NET Framework 3.5.
I've already made my digital certificate in Photoshop.

Thank you.

This can't be your truth!? I pay a lot of money for each exam, and now you want me to pay for the shipping? If I would pay 30€ for an exam it wolud be ok, but it isn't like that at all!

Maybe you should sell all the big, fat cars in front of your company building to have a better carbon footprint. Or you use things that is called "bicycles".

BUT DON'T TAKE AWAY THE CERTIFICATES I PAYED AND EARNED!!!

I love the environment. But I still prefer to receive the paper certificate instead of digital cert.
This will show the high value of a quality certification!

We have already paid for expensive exam fee for each Microsoft exam. Somemore, now we have to pay for the shipping cost. It is really increasing on our burden and make our life more difficult!

When I heard about the digital certificates I thought I was being old fashioned in not liking the idea - having read the posts it's seems there are a lot of people feeling the same. I would much rather have a paper certificate and wallet card than digital versions - much easier to display to students and they feel like a reward after the work put in to pass the exams.

As an addition, just looked at the comments about the white border on the digital certs. MS have designed them for 8.5 x 11 paper which I beleive is the standard in the USA. However the UK standard is A4 - will the certificates be adjusted to fit our standard paper or will we have a very uneven white border? What is the standard paper size in other countries?

When people start showing this Certificates printed in a bad quality paper, all of our certifications are going to loose Prestige, we are going to be next to the A+ certificate. what a sad ending, forget about the master's series, who want to spend 20K and show a home print out master certificate.

I'm going to miss getting my certificate pop through the door. I guess i'm a bit old school in that its actually the piece of paper that makes me feel qualified!

Downloading the certificate just really isn't the same. Some people already think that you can get a MS Certification just by going in and clicking a bunch of buttons (believe me, its been said about me!), and not having a nice shiny card certificate will just make it worse.

While I appreciate the need to be green, I now have to pay a processing fee and postage in order to get my nice shiny certificate. Have I not already paid enough for my exam and training, and then to have to pay to actually get the certificate as well? There's nothing wrong with using recycled paper, if you want to be greener!

As for prometric, I have earned three exam vouchers through a beta exam earlier in the year, and have one second shot left, as well as one of the aforementioned vouchers left. Due to their technical problems, I'm unable to book either of these before the end of the months, and when I emailed them to ask for a 7 day extension, was basically told "tough", so now my vouchers and hard work go to waste.

If going green is the real reason, then people who really need their welcome kit should have it for free as before. It just looks like you are cutting costs and selling us a nice reason for it.

This is a very bad idea. I'm totally unsatisfied. I live outside USA, it will cost me a fortune to order every certificate. I once tried to buy an item from e-store which was for 18$, and it costed me 60$.
which is fortune to me in my national currency.

Going green is just marketing spin for COST CUTTING! This has NOTHING to do with environmentalism. Like others have said, REDUCE your packaging. We pay good money for the courses and exams, MS can surely spare the $5 to send us a paper certificate.

Hi MS, please leave things as they are. This is a bad idea.

Obviously this has nothing to do with the environment, only cutting costs!

Ok let me digest this.... So how long do I have to complete my current track before you totally devalue the Microsoft certs. Could you guys just hold off until I am at least 90 days on the job that I want to retire from.

Hi,

Its a little sad news, the certificate , card and badge we are getting are really an inspiring element of our confidence...

Please charge some small amount for shipping..

Thanks
Krishna

I totally disagree with this ludicrous digital certificates idea. It's just a total kick in the teeth after working so hard and having already paid them thousands of dollars in exam fees. The welcome kit already seemed like a half hearted attempt at showing some sort of recognition, but at least it was something. Now you essentially get nothing for all your hard work and expense - unless you PAY MORE! This is BAD FORM from Microsoft, and they will lose candidates over this. When I did my MCSE I only got 3 certificates in total, after sitting 9 exams! If 1 paper cert per 3 exams isn't green enough I don't know what is.

I have just started on the IT Pro certification track. A huge incentive for myself and my peers *was* the welcome pack.

While the option to provide certificates in electronic form to save paper/cost/whatever is a great idea and there will be people that appreciate this option, there will still be a lot of people that would like something physical to reflect the amount of work put in. I would happily pay extra for the physical wallet card (Don't get me wrong - the digital card sounds excellent). Personally, I was looking forward to comparing/showing off my wallet cards with friends and classmates to use as a study incentive.

I know for sure that I will be ordering all certificates and just wish that I could order a wallet card as well - at cost if need be.
I noticed that one of the MSFT posters mentioned that it is easy to obtain a counterfeit wallet card. This is something that I'd actually consider purchasing if MSFT discontinued them.

EPIC FAIL.

The only way to show them how bad decision they have made is stop paying for those crap MCTS/MCITP exams. I'm sure amount of MCTS/MCITP exams is low compared to old good real MCP times. That is why they were trying to boost it with second shoot.

The only real value in MCTS/MCITP was paper cert and plastic card, now even those are gone. ROTFL.

MSL should learn from Vista failure, you can't fix something that is broken with even worse product. It might take them few fiscal years to notice that. LOL.

I took my first mcp exam in 2006 and up till date have not gotten any certificate and what are you saying to us again... please come again!!

MCP and MCSE are you biggest asset - when people in positions are looking for solutions, we punt MS... Now you change things for us. Can we get wallet cards when we switch to Linux couses?! Sounds so stupid, but not for poeple who study for these exams during their family time, I really want my MCSE card after my next exam! I have been looking forward to it. Bill said he wants to give his money away to charity, charity starts at home, stop buget cutting in stupid places, cut the top management bonuses!

This is another example of Microsoft cutting costs and touting it as a change for the benefit of the environment! Now that MSDN/MAPS kits are electronic download only and so too are the certifications!

Honestly how can a printable certificate compare to a "real" certificate and cards?

All these so called "green" actions are really just shifting the costs away from Microsoft to the end-users.

I like getting the welcome kits after the exams - gave me the feeling I was actually getting something for the certification fees rather than just an electronic exam!

This takes the shine away from actually engaging in courses of study, which when you have to do multiple exams aren't exactly cheap!

This is one of the dumbest ideas that MS has ever had!

It is ridiculous. First, Microsoft stopped shipping the lapel pin and now altogether the certificates and the wallet card. It seems that Microsoft has least care for its so called Certified Professionals. It is really disheartening. Please continue with the paper certificate, wallet card and lapel pin.

That is a wrong decision. Microsoft certification isn't cheap and it isn't prestigious because of abundant braindumps. The biggest incentive to certify was a paper certificate to hang on the wall and a wallet card to show to our geeky friends. Turns out the wallet cards were killing baby seals, so now we have to show them only on Facebook. But what's the deal with the certificates? Is the paper made from polar bear cubs? Shipping? The carbon footprint of signing one agreement (e.g. SPLA) with Microsoft is 5 times more than that of shipping of a certificate. Why not charge partners with shipping costs? It would be green. Or maybe it's not about "greenness" after all. Maybe it's all about money. I guess if it's about money for Microsoft, it should be about money for us too. This "GREEN" decision has made the MS certification even more worthless. After getting 11 MS certificates it's time to move to a cert vendor, who values it's certified professionals a little bit more.

Disgracefull.

I concure after all the effort people put in to learn and support the product a few dollars spent on a certificate is inconsequential.

Irrespective of my comments, how does microsoft printing and shipping a cert in a paper envelope, any different from a user printing the certificate to display. quite likely they are going to print multiple times to get it right.

If you audited users, i think you will find close to 100% would use these certificates to display or for employment etc, and therefore waste would be minimal. I have all my certs here including the original envelopes.

If microsoft continues down this path, they should at least make it an opt in and see how many people take the offer up. There is no reason the additional digital certificates cannot be offered.

!!! SHAME SHAME SHAME !!!!
There's NOTHING GREEN in this decision except the MS's anticipsation of the colour of our brains. MS GUYS, if we were so green in the brains we wouldn't be MS Certified. With this decision You will loose the biggest supportters you have on the ground CERTIFIED PEOPLE. As beeing MCT I know what the PRINTED DIPLOMA does ! DONT DONT DONT GO DOWN THIS ROAD !!

Don't take away my Welcome Kit!!! I want my certificate to be printed on PAPER.

Hello,

I would like to say that this is not the way to go. People are spending huge amounts of money to gain their certifications, and all they will get is a digital copy which doesn't look professional at all. If you want to go green then their are other ways of going about it. I request don't do this to us.

I don't want to make it obvious here, this approach has its own problems.

no certificate, no need for the exam, no need for the class, no need for the books, no need for Microsoft.

I'm going for Cisco at least the respect the intelligence of there student, going green my A***S.

Microsoft should call it going for a quick GREEN Buck.

I prefer the former model because it is really expansive to get a MPC shipping to Brazil.
You guys are not concerned about FootPrint, you are trying to reduce shipping costs.
The certificate you send us by ship is really very importante to find a good Job.

Cheapers!!!

"MCP Certificates are going GREEN!
To reduce the company’s carbon footprint and impact on the environment” ???

Please try to help other companies to go GREEN by providing valuable printing options which are removed from Outlook 2007. In Outlook 2003 these option are available and by removing them from the latest version is not helping at all.

If Microsoft wants to go GREEN then they should provide a platform for others to go GREEN, by doing this they will achieve more then what they will by not printing MCP certificates.

Just compares the small amount of certificates to the people using outlook 2007 and printing all emails because they don't have selective printing option (workaround are not options).

I am really disappointed with Microsoft's decision, i think they only want to save money.

Heard today about going green, and I can't believe it.
Going green = Going almighty dollar green.
Everything is said before me ...
I hope M$ changes this decision.

Hi,
Kindly reconsider this go green activity, added value lies for the cerfificate if the professional receives the certification card from microsoft.
So kindly go with the current Welcome Kit.
This is my suggestion as an MCP

we study hard, we pay the high price,so please give us what we deserve, we are trying our best to learn your products but as a vendor you didn't value your professionals,
PLEASE HELP US SAY I'M MCP BY PROVIDING OUR CERTIFICATES PROPERLY

I just received this from the regional service centre:

"We are writing in regards to your certificates issue.

We have received feedback from our technical department that the charter
certificates can not be downloaded from the website.

Please accept our sincerely apologies for the delay and any
inconvenience you may have experienced."

WHAT??? Seriously? So you work extra hard to get charter member status, and now you have NO way of showing it.

Sort it out Microsoft. WE ARE YOUR BUSINESS. As the decision makers and influencers, if decide we no longer want to use Microsoft products, then as the decision makers and influencers we will find other solutions.

A bit melodramatic maybe, but taking our opinions into account is important.

Looks like it's official, the MCP home page has the "green" announcement.

Thanks microsoft for considering all the supportive feedback from your test takers and NOT reversing this OUTSTANDING idea...

Of course that last paragraph is heavily laced with sarcasm ;)

Your "green" argument makes no sense at all. I bet you are going to actually increase the wasted papers as individuals try to print their certificates into acceptable copies...

A better "green" initiative would have been (like has been previously suggested) to allow the individual to decide if they want to be "green" or not.

This is just another example of penny pinching cost cutting at the expense of customers being dressed up in 'green' clothes.

Gordon Bethune, former CEO of Continetal Airlines once said 'its possible to make a pizza so cheap no one wants to eat it' Well that could be dressed up as being pro green now a-days! Why waste land growing pigs for pepperoni and energy heating glass houses to make tomatoes year round (or air freighting them from the other hemispehere) when you can claim you are being green by offering people less on their pizza??

The impact that Microsoft certification mailings have on climate change is nothing compared to other impacts Microsoft have on the world, of which many are less beneficial.

Of further note is the importantance of supporting global, locallly provided daily door to door postal services which are an essential element of community life world wide and an essential connection with the outside world for many people. Most of these people won't be MCP students, but the postal service is funded by us all, for the good of all. It should be encouraged, but bashed by bean counters trying to get nasty cost sayings in under a green banner.

Simon

After all the hard work and the cost of the course and exams I think we still deserve to get certificates and wallet cards as it has been up until now.

Let's Microsoft Goes Green. Where should we go?

From this point I will write very important things, so MSL Team should pay attention on this post, as well as other certified individuals. I will ask some questions for which I need your answers.

1) Anyone remember how looks a MOC book? It is nearly A4 formatted 5cm depth volume with just a little information on its pages, half of them are pictures therewith. Do MSL have plan to somehow reorganize its educational supplies? For example, Oracle's student guides are notebook size with _more info in it.

2) Will Microsoft reflect its "green" initiative on exam costs? They cut of their own costs on certificates issue(lets assume pdf-generating servers are not so expensive to maintain), but why customers should receive no benefit from this?

3) To be honestly, why do we need support certification programm by means of our money at all? Of course, it is nearly to impossible to migrate infrastructure to other vendors, and some MS products are realy at high- or near end, and therefore require solid knowledge, but what the reason we spend money and time to achieve another "status"? Do we realy need it? Sometimes it looks like fetishism. Under certain conditions, you will not receive any advance in carrier or salary for achieving another one. To stick it on the wall? Come on, there are many other things which can be sticked. To achieve something in computer industry, to gain knowledge? Come on, the real life, the real projects have more challenges than majority of MS exams. It is not a secret, that sometimes exams are very stupid, I mean very easy.

My last point. Communiqué:

Lets do a flash_mob: "MCPs go down." The whole july do not take any MS exam. Boycott.

You will see - nothing will changes. Nobody's salary will be reduced. No-one will know less about AD and Exchange. The net effect - Microsoft will go green.

Jet Pilot,

MCT, MCSA*6, MCSE*4

p.s. to contact me about flash_mob please feel free to unicast an email to shrek400 at mail.ru

I have downloaded "my" MCT cert in pdf format. For my website I need a graphical representation to prove my customers that I'm cool and Microsoft verifies that. But I'm not allowed to extract the JPEG contents from _MY_ certificate. Is this your property or mine? I correctly understood, that Microsoft defines what I should(must) do and what not? Would you send me a password for _MY_ property? Thank you.

Jet, for your website you should use Logo Builder to create a logo that you can use to show that you're cool and that we verify it. :-)

Or--in August, you'll be able to use a virtual business card to do the same thing, plus have it link directly to your transcript to *really* have us verify it.

I recently logged in to microsoft.com/mcp and noticed the digital certificate announcement. This is very disappointing as I am taking another certification on Tuesday and was looking forward to receiving my paper certification.

Please offer digital certificates as an option--and continue to send us our paper certifications for free. After spending time and money to earn certifications, it's nice to get a paper certification as a "reward".

NOT happy about the "green" idea at all, although I consider myself a person who cares about the environment. Give people a choice - if someone wants to reduce his carbon footprint - let them opt-in for digital goodies. Overall - bad decision! Don't think Mr. Gates would approve of that.

I disappointed with this idea from Microsoft.
This will make the certificate loss of value!

Thank you, Ken, for the answer!

I already have cracked this pdf while I need JPEGed representation of my certificate. If I required a logo I just post it on my site.

And again, this pdf is MY property or not? Why it is contain a foreign password?

BTW, I have asked some other questions, which you have not answered.

For example, do MSL will reduce format of MOC books? They are gigants and contain disproportionately few info.

I found your answer about exam costs - MS will not reduce 'em. This is unfair. Unfair to community - MS reduce its costs and not reduce costs for its customers. Like a pure corporation, though.

Ken, check this chair. I think Microsoft's bonzas are sitting in such one when they talk about greengoing.

http://photoload.ru/data/c5/f3/1e/c5f31ecf4111f...

Wrong turn

This is really unfair on paying for shipping. I am not against the green concept. What i don't agree with is that i have to pay for shipping. One pays the exam after going through tough period of preparation. Remember Microsoft is covering the whole world even in areas where there are no Credit cards. so hw do u expect them to order the certificate. THINK GLOBALLY PLEASE!

I am shocked!

I want my printed certificate!!

I do not want to pay extra shipping and handling fee as the fee is already well covered in the exam fee!!!

Digit certificates like counterfeit money will create chaos only. It devalues the MCP program and makes the program disappear faster – GREENEST result!!!!

Smart people do make mistakes. Please reverse it!!!!!

I think MSL is waiting for 2.5mln negative comments from all MCPs to understand how wrong decission it is...

I see this as a very bad idea, do you know that am completing my exams now just to have the paper certificate instead of the digital one!
Green is good, but think of it, its my certificate for god's sake, it must be my right to have it paper based.

as i can see from the MCP flash, our comments are useless because microsoft already placed dates and deadlines, so commenting here is just like christmas in january

Echoing what others said, this is a disappointment.

The physical items are a tangible reward for all the time, effort, and expense put into earning certification.

If we are all printing our own certs out there is no savings to the environment anyway.

Jet P,

I'll check into the password issue. I imagine it has something to do with helping to guard against fraudulent certificates, but I'll ask to make sure.

I'm confused about your MOC question--I have a few recent courses in my office, and the books are quite small in size, about the size of an average hardback book in a bookstore. Perhaps you haven't seen our courseware in a while? We switched over to a smaller form factor last year.

Finally, I'm sorry your disappointed that we're not lowering our exam costs. Frankly, we're using our cost savings as a way to avoid *raising* our prices (as other vendors have done recently). We haven't raised our exam prices in eight years, and we have no plans to do so in the near future.

While you're checking into the password issue, how about checking into THIS problem with the new PDFs? http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/06/more-fee...

please,how much is it going to cost?
and how long will it take to be shipped to nigeria.

cutting costs, disguised as "going green" real annoying...

I suppose they will allow me to take my cert tests from home vs going to a prometric testing center. (hour drive one way for me)
:)

Really is this option to cut cost the carbon foot print of the company or to reduce the unwanted shipping charges. LOL :)

I think Microsoft is saving money, as well as making certificates and wallet cards is a good idea but only for USA residence or Europe countries, but in some developing countries it is really required to show up the Microsoft welcome kits and the wallet cards which go from the Microsoft in order to be accepted, my suggestion is both options should be available digitally and shipping order, but as far as we are paying for may exams to get one or some welcome Kits and wallet cards, the order for shipping should be including with exam cost, as far as myself is concern I am newly certified my last exam was 27th June 2009 after paying for many exams to pass and get few welcome kits and wallet cards, now I know that I really have to have my welcome kits and wallet cards shipped to my mail address, otherwise, downloading digital certificates and wallet cards and print on any paper absolutely will call a faked.

Cheers

Please allow the welcome kits to be ordered and bring back the lapel pins. Even if you have to charge.
If you are *really* concerned about the green issues (hahaha) then I promise to plant a tree and walk to work for a week each time I order a kit ;)

I think it's absolute nonsense this "go green" campaign.Just another gimmick by microsoft for cost cutting.You expect me to walk into an interview without having a certificate and tell the interviewer I will mail it to him.Absolute nonsense.Bring back the certificate...As it is, the exams are overpriced and now this...what next..???

I do not know, why my last comments has been deleted, there is was nothing, I just mentioned that after spending thousands of dollars and crossing borders to reach and get certified, and will get nothing is crazy, so please request kindly open ordering welcome Kits and certificates

Older system is better than new system. Because I am from Sri Lanka. Transportaion is very difficult and. Even If I buy a shirt from estore, I have to pay 8000Rs for Sri Lankan Money. If you apply this type of process most of the sri Lankan student unable to get the certification. Please reconsider the old system

I am a fan of microsoft, But I am very unhappy about this matter. microsoft stop the label pin first, with out our consideration. Nowadays we also very dissappointed. please consider older system

Please Consider the old system, it is the same problem in many countries, that hard copy is more considerable than soft copy.

so please Please Please

I think the guys from MS business will read all this and... nothing will change, certificates will be digital, because of the profit. Especialy are nice begging, do you realy think if you beg big corporation it will change anything?

Shujauddin: we deleted your comment because it had a profanity in it. Criticism is welcome, but please keep the language professional, okay? :-)

I see that access for MCPs to "Microsoft Partner Level Knowledge Base" also is discontinued.

AFAIK It wasn't even announced this will be discontinued.

What else are you planning to discontinue in next 30 days?

And again you haven't updated you page - that means you are frauding people that have passed exams in last 7 days. Same like you have done in 2007 and 2008 with MCTS not being MCP while your site wasn't mentioning anything like that.

https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/benefits/whatsnew...

Anyone who have passed exams in last 7 days should receive free welcome kits like it is promised on your site!

Me: we announecd the discontinuation of the Partner KB benefit in the December 2008 MCP Flash--sorry you missed it!

As for the page you refer to, I'm pretty sure that's an "orphan," meaning it's not linked to anywhere from our site (but thanks for brining it to our attention, I've asked for it to be removed). It's been replaced by: https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/benefits/default...., which is up-to-date and correct. No fraud. :-)

Wonder why my comments doesn't show up immediately, censorship? I keep "language professional" and call things with right words (FRAUD!)

MS Cenzorships my (nick ME) comments. Ken Rosen is wrong desription of "old benefits" is still linked from "new" site. It is on right side of above (Ken Rosen) link. Funny thing it is called "Related Links•
Find out what is new in certification benefits". Notice word "NEW"!

What a shame - do you know what is responsibility? Have you heard about Dell mistakes on site? Who is the Manager here and who is responsible for the fact that even simple removing of benefits is done with such failures?

Thanks, Me/Cenzorship (although I find it odd that you claim that we censor your comments given how many of them are on this site :-))

But thanks for pointing out the link--I see it, and I'll ask that it be removed too. It's pretty clearly backdated and superceded by the official benefits page, but you're absolutely right that we should have caught and removed it sooner.

Thanks for the catch!

Take responsibility it is FRAUD! Same like it was with MCP and MCTS in 2007 and 2008.

So far you have cenzorshiped three my posts. Do you have any written rules abuout cenzorship?

I try to keep my language polite with the way you ignore people it is really hard.

EPIC FAIL

Those my posts were cenzored by MS


First post:

It was/is linked from right site links. So Fraud!

Second post:

Check right side of your link. That is FRAUD! It is not orphaned! The link to page that I have posted is called on new site that you linked as a "Related Links•
Find out what is new in certification benefits"

FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! Like in 2007 and 2008!



Third post:

Wonder why my comments doesn't show up immediately, censorship? I keep "language professional" and call things with right words (FRAUD!)

Cenzorship, there's a useful lesson here:

Your posts didn't show up because our spam filter caught them. (I see them in our spam folder.)

However, it appears that you assumed that the failure of those comments to appear was censorship--and when you assume that our intent is anything other than positive, it's pretty easy to make mistakes like that, and pretty tough us to have constructive conversations.

Similarly, here's a link to the definition of fraud: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fraud

Notice that a key requirement of "fraud" is an intent to deceive for unlawful or dishonest gain.

I think that especially when you put that page in context with the rest of our site, it's pretty clear that what we've committed is a *mistake* not *fraud.*

Same goes for your earlier complaint--I agree with you that the language could be less confusing, but it's pretty hard for me to see how one could think we were attempting fraud.

You are absolutely welcome to criticize all you like--but I would appreciate it if you would assume positive intent on our part and keep the discussion focused on facts rather than accusations, ok?

Thanks!

Ken Rosen: I know how to keep my language professionally, it is easy to think about own benefits rather than others, if you spend thousands of dollars and get nothing even a single piece of paper, how you will feel? I will really heartily appreciate, if you provide me MS exams DIGITALLY on my own internet connection and personal home computer, you should not take this issue limit for some countries, have you ever thought world wide what problem people will face if they do not have their physical certificates, welcome kits and wallet cards??? have you ever thought that there are some countries in the world that still they prefer the old system, have you ever thought that people still do not have access to credit, Visa and Master cards??? Now do not be confused I am talking about developing countries, Okay.

And I think you just can see and read the profanity, Fraud words, but not read the word of $$$$ spent by people

Shujaddin: thanks for the note. I do understand how you feel. I want to make sure that we're clear, however, that you will indeed get a certificate--just not in printed form. And if you want one in printed form, you can order one from Arvato (or take the digital copy to a local printing center, which is probably cheaper).

We do know that there are people and places in the world that prefer the old system, and we hope that they'll adjust to and over time prefer the new system. In the meantime, again, they can continue to order their certificates for a small shipping/handling fee.

I do agree that the credit-card-only thing is a problem. I hope we'll see more payment types added soon.

Oh, and about delivering exams to you digitally on your own Internet connection and at your own computer: we're working on it. :-)

"Your posts didn’t show up because our spam filter caught them. (I see them in our spam folder.)"

That is interesting - I wasn't selling blue pills or advertising enlargement of body parts. If my first was accepted and many of later posts never were marked by human as a spam then what was the reason of it? For me you explanation doesn't work. I do not believe in your single word. Why? You have said you seen it was in spam folder then why haven't you moved it out of it? Cenzorship!

"Notice that a key requirement of “fraud” is an intent to deceive for unlawful or dishonest gain."

I do not believe in your intentions, you have failed with providing true intentions with going green. I'm not the only one, press PGUP and you will find more people that do not believe you. for me it is Fraud no matter what your intentions are. Think about intentions of your "customers". They came on your sites read informations here, they believe you just to find it latter that you were lying. Like you have done in 2007, 2008 and now in 2009. If you are serious business then let us threat your serious. Now it looks like everyone who would like to deal with MS must consider that every word from you might be misleading, must dig into your blogs to find explanations and announcements in time. In legal terms it doesn't matter what your intentions were, again think about those FRAUDED people in 2007 and 2008. Those people weren't given any explanation till Trika posts! I am sure your intentions here wouldn't matter from law point of view. No matter how would it be called by lawyers, cheating, misleading, frauding the fact is those people were given promised to get MCP and welcome kits and that is how civil law sees it.

If you are unable to provide correct informations about your offer add statements like : Do not treat as seriously, we can provide you misleading informations, and this site is no offer in law terms. That could help you in court. I'm still hoping to see class action about MCP/MCTS.

Cenzorship: I think we're at the end of our discussion now. :-)

I can't tell why spam filters work the way they do, but for some reason, it caught your comments. As to why I didn't move them out, it's because you reposted them when you brought them to my attention, so it seemed redundant to publish them again. :-)

But since you don't believe me on this or any other issue, there's no point in my taking the time to address any more of your questions and concerns.

I hope you continue to find this blog a useful source of information and a worthwhile investment of all the time you put in here, and if at some point you're willing and ready to assume positive intent, let us know and we can resume our dialogue.

Ken

I complete my 70-648 Upgrade from MCSA to MCITP exam and ordered for my welcome kit before 1 July 2009. After that date, i can't find the page for the status of my order! Please put back that page.

I don't have a credit card and those cards you use to buy, pay and sell things are only for a few in my country, how will i be able to order for my MCITP Wallet Card from Microsoft!

Trust me, i am from Africa and no one in the interview room will ever listen to things like "i will email it or send you a link" besides there are many people who forge certificates and you have open up room for those guys to do business and spoil our field indeed.

Those certificates and wallet cards will be forged big time if MS stops giving legal ones.

There is a page on the site which is dead, please let us know whats going on instead of kill pages abruptly.

I am OK with the Green campaign, but it will be better done if you ONLY you ship the Certificate and Wallet Card WITHOUT the other advert papers and letter, plastic covers and excess hard covers.

Thank you

Hi Krsk,

it is same problem with me, as you mentioned regarding Credit card and Interviewer, I also already suggested bringing back the old system, but no one is there to hear about us, I hope they hear and feel our failure after many successes.

I'm pretty sure I've read all your responses Ken and I can still see numerous points for which you don't have real answers for. Some have responses yes, but not solutions.

- Offloading the printing of certificates to the end recipients is not a carbon saving. Printing certs multiple times to 'get it right' could in fact create more.
- The ratio of the net carbon saving compared to the cost and time spent per MCP is out of proportion. Adding insult to injury, MCPs are the ones doing all the spending, while you're the ones doing all the cutting
- A tangible reward that is considered VERY important to MCPs has been removed
- By not consulting the MCP community first, you have seriously alienated them
- The percentage of people on this blog that disagree with this move would roughly represent what the MCP community thinks as a whole. Even worse for you, only the small minority that know about this blog are able to see your responses to thier opinions. On a scale of 1-5, the score of 1.28 shown above, is the equivalent of 0.28 if the scale was 0-4. (you know all the 1 star votes would be 0 star votes, if that was an available option). On a scale of 0-10 it's still not even a 1!

Because all these problems don't have actual solutions, this should be considered your 'net result' from this move. As a business owner/director myself, if I was getting this sort of feedback, I would be back-pedaling like crazy.

Nice summary MCSE2003. One thing doesn't stop amazing me - Ken is "Community and Evangelism team" leader but I get feeling he totally lost contact with community and maybe reality. He writes "I am happy to announce" - this is really sad that he as a community and evangelism leader do not have any reflections based on feedback from community. Wonder what is the point of such position? I was trying to explain him (using MS data!) that servers aren't greener than small amount of plastic. He ignored it. I think we should contact organizations that keep records of greenwashing companies (above wikipedia link ).

You claim that we are not listing in your follow ups 1 & 2 and try giving us the same reasons. In the same way that you are talking to us (You’re Customers) I am truly surprised how little you do listen. I would have thought by now you see you made a mistake and stop trying to justify it and give the customer what they want. Certificate (if they want) the only way. What would you say if you worked for an ATM company ban all their cards too. If you truly wish to be green write less code and better operating systems that require less processing power and memory

Microsoft is just another example of what is wrong with companies these days. They spand less and provide less behind the facade of environmental benefits, which are zero my gullible friends. I am an MCSE that has long abandoned Microsoft because of their indifference to the people that feed them. thank God for Apple!

We paid enough to actually get the certs, we shouldn't have to pick up the cost of shipping. I never had to pay for my paper copy before, why should I now?

Thanks MS, good to know you're still good at thinking of ways to milk your customers, even those that are willing to get certified in your products, which already helps perpetuate your business.

That 's really a non sens! and it 'llgo right devaluate the certification program!Who really advices those guys at microsoft?
I'am really affraid to notice that as year passes,microsoft certificates value are decreasing;because they begin by discontinuing the shipment of lapel pin;and now certificates,May be tomorow it 'll be the certification program itself! Who knows

I think that reducing cost on such things Microsoft signs that there are big problems in company. It is very sad. Thus Microsoft reducing it's popularity as well.
BTW I can suggest NOT to send paper spam like "Switch to Visual Studio 2008 now" or "People ready" you know, stuff like these. It is really hollow information and it costs (as I think) much more than limited number of certificates for the professionals that really interested in Microsoft technologies.

Just one more reason I suggest Linux to every person with half a brain. How about you give me what I rightfully paid for. The least you can do is send me a 10 cent piece of paper after I spent $125 on a test. Thanks for continuing your legacy MS and screwing the little man.

I can not access my Digital certificates. Server www.mcpdigitalcert.com is probably overloaded, everything is loading very slow. 15 minutes ago, I have logged on to view my certificates and until now, I have no progress with it. :(

------------How do I order the paper certification? I've spent ages looking at that darn website and can't see anywhere to put in my credit card details and order!

Thanks in advance!

Edward

In last 6 months MS has discontinued more benefits, not only wallet cards and paper certs, free shipping and welcome kits.


"Online MCP Resources Retiring in December (Worldwide)
Due to limited usage, on December 15, 2008, we will retire the following online resources currently available to Microsoft Certified Professionals (MCPs) and MCTs: Membership Directory, Profiles on Microsoft.com, and access to the partner-level Knowledge Base. Watch for announcements of new MCP benefits in early 2009. For questions regarding the MCP program, visit your Regional Service Center."

That counts to 6 discontinued benefits, with average close to one benefit gone per month. LOOOOOL

Subscribe to RSS and wait for more. With such speed till end of the year they might discontinue whole MS:)

Already mentioned; I hope you fix the charter member. To me it's what makes me give a little extra to be early as well as beeing a validation that you did not use braindumps.

Hope you can fix it for us.

Charging to recieve a certificate is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. It is typical Microsoft greed and sheer arrogance that people will need to pay to recieve the certificate they have paid hundreds of dollars of exam fees to earn. I am not sure what joker came up with this idea. It was probably the company accountant who has no idea about marketing or customer satisfaction or customer loyalty.

If Microsoft was serious about the environment they would give test takers the option of not recieving a certificate - for those interested in reducing their "carbon footprint".

i think all of us appreciate printed certificate with quality, and the wallet card!
Please back to the "old system"

At least, Microsoft should consider reducing the exam prices.. Aren't they saving a lot of money? Earlier, when I passed an exam, also included in the price was the certificate shipment.. Now additionaly to the exam price, we have to pay an extra to receive the certificate? Bill, please come back to Microsoft and bring back the old system!!!!


NOW IT'S TIME TO MICROSOFT PROVE THEY HEAR THE COMMUNITY. JUST WATCH THE POST'S AT THIS TOPIC TO SEE COMMUNITY'S CHOICE

yes please, continue sending "hardware" welcome kits, wallet cards etc.
Original certificate from your printers are more official than something printed on color laser printer at our homes or companies.

Carbon footprint - what a load of crap. You aren't "saving the planet" by not sending out certificates and the idea that humans are warming the planet is the biggest scam that has ever been conceived.

It appears that I'm not alone in my views of the certificates and even the wallet card.

We as MCSEs, MCITPs, MCTs spend considerable resources to promote Microsoft's products and training.

The least Microsoft can do is provide is certificates that are authentic and professional.

I must say that I don't feel good about putting it up on the wall next to the original high-quality certs.

As far as other benefits, thank you for offering technet direct to MCTs; how about adding eBooks and/or nonexpiring eLearning from the MS site?

What about the partner program where we used to be able to get NFR software from those that partnered with MS? Lately that's gone down the drain.

Finally, MCITP -- now we're just professionals rather then systems engineers -- what a downgrade in the image of the cert! Please reinstate the MCSE/MCSA titles.

Thank you for your time.

For authenticity and reputation of the company (Microsoft), I would suggest you continue maintain the old system. I as well disagree with the new arrangement.

Beside it is Green it is also a big cost saving for Microsoft.
What will be the nex saving item???

And again Microsoft reduces the costs to costs of the consumer. Produktaktivation was the first hit in the face of your customer. This one just strikes those people that support you. Gartnergroup promised you 5 years till breakdown of the Microsoft empire. Well if this is your intention, continue yor excellent work. Too sad Microsoft Products just getting fine. But how dumb do you think customers are, that they don't notice the hidden Support cost for productactivation? Digital certivicates - great, are they from Verisign or someone related? What Microsoft did in past few years is the same garbage that some other managers do. Reduce the cost at any price. Buissines and customers are going down the drain, who cares? The main thing is in my period I reduced the costs. Really great work!

I'm not happy with this decision at all. I'm all for not sending them unless requested (for those who want to be "green"), but it shouldn't cost us anything if we decide we want the official certificate. These shipping costs were factored in to the exam costs previously so it's just a scam by MS to keep the money and then charge again for the certificate. Please rethink this woeful policy Microsoft.

Green....this is about making money. What is the test fee for then? How does it save trees and carbon if I print something versus MS?

Going "Green", "carbon footprint" my ...

This is a cost cutting measure just like everything else MS is doing, nothing more. This time however your treating your MCP's as customers, which I guess they are. Just like the media download requirements for MAPS now this puts the burden on the end user/customer to do what they use to get Microsoft to do as part of the fees associated with the purchase, yes paying for a test and training materials is a purchase.

BTW if there was such a thing as actually being able to track carbon output on a piece by piece basis as you are trying to do by no longer printing Certificates you have just moved your footprint from the Redmond printing office to some distant Geek's home printer. Oh but wait let's count each watt of electricity for each router the "Digital Cert" travels not to mention the labor for the data center MS is using to produce the Digital Cert, the labor for the MCP's email hosting, etc, etc.

Going green , A BIG BS Microsoft!

Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator
MCP, MCTS: Vista, MCTS: SharePoint, MCITP: Vista Consumer, MCITP: Vista Enterprise

Could you possibly be more dishonest in annoucing this policy? It is quite obvious that Microsoft isn't changing its distribution method for environmental reasons. It is doing it to save money. The idea that a digital certificate is the equivalent of the paper certificate is rediculous. Most applicants will not have the means to properly print them out.
I am sure some bean counting MBA
came up with idea and that he never considered the implicit message this sends as to the value of certification. Or then again, he could be sending the message that Microsoft intends.

Reducing carbon footprint....ya right! This is purely a cost cutting measure cloaked in 'greenness'. Microsoft, don't put PR spin on it. Just flat out say it's a cost cutting measure and don't try to sound all environmental friendly when that's NOT the primary motivating factor.

We spend a lot of money on classes, exams, and study guides. If Microsoft can't cover the $10 (or whatever it is) to send us a nice printed certificate for our hard efforts, Microsoft should just cancel certifications in the name of 'greenness'...now that would save a lot of paper!

Going green... reduce carbon footprint.. pfft.. how is this so if people print out their own certificates instead of MS?

Like everyone said.. this is a cost cutting measure..

Surely, the AU$180 per exam fee should cover the cost of sending a piece of paper..

MS just de-valued their certifications and tries to cover it with some lame excuse...

BTW nice rating system since it won't let you give it a ZERO Stars! Show of hands, who here actually gave 2 stars...

Sad really. Decided to take the couple of exams I had any interest in. Got (possibly) the last "free" issued certificate and found that even the gold foil had been scraped off the paper by the M$ accountants and replaced with yellow ink as a seal. My disgust with the certification programs is complete...it really only became anger after the hypocrisy of calling it 'going green'. Has all this really been an effort to force people to purchase a 'microsoft certified master' plaque for $18,500?

Guys you don't understand....

"Going Green", Green = Green Dollars $$

So in other words Microsoft is GOING to make GREEN dollars.

The old system was much better.....

Or I have an idea....

Those of us who want paper certificate should be able to order them for free.....Those who don't want wont order....


And cut the crap of God damn "GOING GREEN" aka Microsoft is GOING to make GREEN dollars

I want my plastic wallet card. This it the most stupid MS idea.

I have to say this is just really ridiculous, We all spend a small fortune on getting the qualifications and MS is now just cutting costs, it is just no good. We all know that the “going green” is just a big front that they want the public to blindly believe and just accept. Things like this just infuriate me. Just another example of Value being taken away form the People that Make MS possible. I am just very disappointed.
The Green excuse and that is what it is, is just pathetic…

What ever. The deeper the hole MS digs the more market share Linux obtains. Cost savings for Microsoft so they can pay higher wages for outsourcing. I think I will just focus on Sun Certification.

The mcpdigitalcert.com website is down!

After the money i spent, and all the effort i put into getting my MCP,
and after all the hassle of validating my MCP, i cant even download the damn qualification!!!

This is an absolute disgrace on microsoft's behalf.

I recently passed a Sun Microsystems Java exam,

and they emailed me the next day saying they would be sending out my Certificate!

Now thats the way it should be.

This is just another way for microsoft to save money and make it hard for people just to get a damn cert on paper!

1 step forward 10 steps back.

you could download the mcitp and mcts certificates before anyway, so isn't much of a green measure, only a cost cutting measure by forcing mcps to have to pay for the certificates now. You had to request to get the certs sent before, but could download if you felt green inclined.
Also, the new downloaded certificates have different certification wording from the previously available downloadable and printed certificates, which goes to show that there's no consistency, such as the hyper V cert just says server virtualization on the new download.
Also not giving even 60 days notice to the change in policy is unfair, as I already had an exam booked which was for after the deadline

OK. It's nice going green and everything but why is there a shipping and handling charge if we're downloading the certificates?

Sort of reminds me of tickets I purchased recently online. If you want the ticket mailed it's $7. If by Email it's $5. What kind a fee is needed where no human has touched the ticket request - unlike mailing where the ticket has to be printed, tucked in an envelope and then mailed.

You pay 140 EUR exam FEE, I expect something!Stupid decision.

Just my 2 cents against this decision. I beleive all is said above.

Actually, I paid a lot of effort to take different MS exam from NT4 to Windows 2008. If exam will not provide paper printout certificate any more, I consider to discontinue my MS cert path in coming future. And in my peer group, I am one of the driver to encourage my peers to take MS exam. In coming, I will discourage my peers to take MS exam and technology. I am strongly disappointed to this arrangement.

I would like to propose the following suggestion for MS if they are really consider to our voice.

1. establish a plan for existing holder to choose to maintain the existing plan. They can order paper certificate w/o paying extra shipping and handling charge

2. Discount the exam fee (Not a short period to CHEAT user), deduct whole shipping and handling fee.

3. Send me an official email and tell me that it is MS new arrangement.
And please note it in the email "if you don't accept it please do not use MS product".

I am vvvvvery angry w/ this new arrangement.

I just planned my OCS and W2K8 virtualization in coming months. I will cut it. And I won't suggest OCS as Enterprise Voice and IM solution to my customer. I will not suggest Hyper-V as Virtualization platform.

I will not take Win7 exam for driving new Desktop deployment.


Angry Loyal MS user
Victor Tong
http://www.0101news.com/?page_id=165

Previously, I got a news that Novell announced that they will not provide paper certificate. At that moment, I told myself Novell doing a stupid job. It is a stupid decision and direction. And Now, MS doing same stupid thing. Certificate is the first step. NOS and other products will following the same stupid direction. Only Stupid guy can think this stupid plan. And other the stupid peers will accept, approve and release this stupid announcement.

Please think it seriously. Don't make this as another Vista.

Guys, this sucks!
If I pay a lot of money (here in argentina US$100 is a lot of money, around 10% of a promediate family incomes) I want something real not virtual! You are disencouraging people to take the certfications. When I pay a service I wanna the services, when I pay a certfication I want my CERT included in my exam cost. No just a Virtual Cert allegating we are going green, if you need your cert pay more!!

Sandro D. Garcia

So the exams will now be cheaper as MS is cutting costs? Dream on :-(

Going green LOL a piece of plastic doesn't consume any power once its made but all the servers used to run this scheme will now be useing resources for ever and a day.

Going Green - shutdown all MS Servers and Clients. Whole world will go green. Huge saving in energy.

And please do not deploy new machine. It is a mean to go green.

But not cutting our hard copy certification.

What the hell...
Doing the Microsoft certification course now, but suddenly completing the internationals has lost its appeal. I want decent certificates for all my hard work, not some cheap piece of paper I printed myself.

Annoyed MCP! You have to reduce the exam fee otherwise "reducing the company's carbon footprint" is blasfemy to reduce your cost and win more money over the exams.

Why don't you reduce the exam fee? Don't you think that's good time for?
What the hell...

To All MCPs,

Let vote it in my blog.

I just created a polling.
This can provide more concrete figures for MS reference

This bad idea

I don't agree with MS decision to go green on MCP certificates and cards. Downloading and printing on any piece of paper totaly undervalues all the hard work that goes into achieving a certificate. To pay in order to get your certificate on paper in my opinion is totally unfair given the fact that we already pay exam fees and that should cover all the cost associated with the exams and printing certificate and cards.

I think there are many other ways to reduce the carbonfoot print which been mentioned in the other post above.

Okay, so all comments up until today, July 16, and I have seen only one person agreeing completely with this. There are a few somewhat-negative opinions, and a lot of extreme-negative; mine is the latter. Please pay attention, Ken and everyone else at Microsoft!

In rebuttal to Michael Dragone in particular:

1- I agree that the wallet cards were high-quality, but zero use. If people want to verify your credentials, they'll check online and not ask for your wallet card. To me it's just a "Check this out!" thing, and no worthwhile value. HOWEVER- If they made these cards with a running update of what all your certifications with Microsoft were, then I would like to see that! But I have enough plastic in my wallet now to make it difficult to sit straight, and I don't need yet another "necessary" piece of plastic added to it.
2- I also see no point in the digital ID cards.
3- I have only ever used Prometric. They are usually pretty decent, though their test gets very "laggy" by the end. It stunk on taking the 70-297 (first time only so far) when I spent all my time trying to read the scenario, ended up with only 2.75 minutes to answer 7 questions, and was experiencing 45-second delays between screens. Yup, didn't complete that one. And I have a huge bone to pick over the 70-297 test; but that's another discussion.
4- Printed certificates with metallic seals are of huge appeal, as they are useful in shops and offices where people want to see a display of your credentials. They also are a trophy of pride for people who have spent months/years and thousands of dollars in preparation to reach some lofty certification. I didn't like the last credential I got; I thought it looked kinda cheap. Now trying to do away with them? Bad move. That makes it near-worthless to me. Yes, people in interviews don't check your credentials by having you bring them in; it's a matter of displaying them to potential customers.
5- MCSE vs. newer certs... I like the concept of purpose-specific certifications, but MCSE realistically is pretty core to understanding the whole ball of wax. MCSE is not irrelevant. And as more and more organizations (not just users) are saying that they won't use Windows 7, or at least not for a long time, and knowing how little difference Server 2008 seems to make vs. 2003 in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that MCSE is obsolete in the slightest. I DO think that there should be an MCSE-2008, like the difference that occurred between 2000 and 2003, and not some other monicker.

But for my take on the "green" junk... As evidenced by these comments, I'm sure everyone will print it out themselves anyway, wasting an equivalent amount of ink and paper. And with enough misprints, there will probably be more paper and ink used than if MS did it. You're not saving any trees. And the shipping would be the only potential difference. But- One thin packet will not impact the transport systems. The same planes and trucks will still go on their routes. Yes, if a billion people went truly paperless, then we'd have much fewer postal delivery vehicles. But then again, sales of things like jump drives, which are far less eco-friendly, would skyrocket. And this isn't even touching my true feelings on the whole "carbon footprint" (BS!) concept.

Side note - I worked for Wells Fargo years ago, when they went "paperless" for most notifications. The funny part of it was that, with the way it was carried out, this ended up making them print MORE stuff (about 3x the original paperwork), and take up MORE storage space, etc. Wow, that went the wrong direction! So IMHO, "paperless" is also B.S. And think of all the extra power consumed in people repeatedly accessing server banks and transmitting via batches of routers... Each time you want to show someone you're official? Instead of holding up your beautiful Microsoft-provided print? Much less eco-friendly!

As for the other benefits that have gone away:
I think the lapel pins were a wonderful idea. I only got one for MCP, and thus kinda ignored it, but I'd love to have an MCSA and MCSE one.
Similarly, at the events, we used to get really nice TechNet and MSDN t-shirts with our welcome packs, and get them passed-out along the way too. I find these wonderful to wear when I have to get semi-dirty in a job and don't want to wear a polo shirt, but still have a high-quality Microsoft image. The tees they only sparingly give out now just look like you're turning us into billboards, and I avoid wearing it unless it's doing something totally non-tech-related and nowhere where I might drum-up customers for simple side work. So in short, please go back to giving out the nice-looking t-shirts!

As for the money-savings concept... I have a somewhat unfavorable overall opinion of Microsoft products these days (I'm now seriously starting to go into Linux, and am also looking into AmigaOS 4.1). But even so, I can totally understand that MS might actually be trying to make an environmental impact, with some level of altruistic intentions (with a financial side-benefit), being such a large company. However, I think it should be in the form of electronic manuals and advertisements, reducing the serious amount of paperwork being generated there, while leaving highly-valued paper products (a cert is only one sheet, for goodness' sake!) alone.

Please also keep in mind that this all might be tainted by my work in a print shop at a financial institution, where the 4 main IBM printers have generated a total of about 100 million prints. Suddenly printing a couple thousand sheets per workday --to send to people who earned and value them-- doesn't seem like so big a deal.

And to the person who said Microsoft won't listen: we can change that; just add the comment in every post-exam survey that "I want my Microsoft-provided paper certificate! Until I get it, I will not take another test!" Get a thousands of these on a daily basis, and watch the number of exams being taken plummetting, and SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO LISTEN!

Yeah, MCSE will be my last Microsoft certification. I'm done with them. And forget Windows 7.

I think this stinks!! Fortunately, I already have my certs, but I think that given the cost that Microsoft charges for taking the test, the least they could do is send you the certificate. What happens if you do not have a color printer available, or quality paper to print it on. Now you have to go by some sort of quality paper and possibly a good color printer to print it on. You may be spending hundreds of dollars to print something that Microsoft can already do. On top of that, it puts a hurting on the postal service who is already raising the cost of postage on an annual basis and possibly cutting Saturday mail delivery because of companies doing this. For what Microsoft makes on these tests, the least they can do is print a certificate or cut the costs of taking the tests by the amount they are charging for shipping and handling to send you the certificate. After all, I am sure what they are charging is far more than what it actually costs them. Just my two cents worth.

Seems they just want to save money. I'd like to have a printed certificate and the wallet card is also great. If you have to pay extra for those items, Microsoft should lower the price for the certification tests!

I think, I will not continue my Microsoft certification concerning those conditions!

Going green? come on, you should say 'Reducing costs, you pay the same'
Microsoft only want to reduce the cost of give the people who pass the certification their welcome kit. But people pay the same for the certification.
The green reason is only a way to swindle people...

Good old Microsoft saving the environment....yah right!!!

First they stopped giving technet subscriptions, then 1/2 price for upgrade exams and now certificates. They have never added value, only taken it away.

I will think twice before wasting money on another Microsoft certification

Well, I have done couple of certifications but never ordered certificates though, thinking I would get it anytime I order it. I had plans for going atleast 4 certifications more. But the idea of not getting certificates doesnt appeals me but as several others said, it discourage me to go ahead with it. Digital certificates is good idea but we cant produce digital certificates to every one. If you are so concerned about green, then even using electricity causes lot of damage to environment in most of the countries. How you are going to deal with it.

Please leave lame excuse of going green, and stop discouraging.

This idea just degrades the value of the certification system.

Think twice before going ahead with it.

I was deeply upset by Microsoft's notice in MCP Flash it has pulled the official certificate from under us and then forces a further charge to get an offical version.

This erodes the personal value that comes from achieving a qualification and then receiving a formal certificate.

It another bizarre step that makes me wonder yet again what is becoming of the company.

Bad idea, if the paper cert comes with a wallet card, and the exam comes with a discount to reflect your savings, then tolerable, however forgive me if I suspect the worst...

Dave: metal seals...

Dave, good post but you are missing M$'s latest practical joke... The certificates NO LONGER HAVE metallic seals. They have very recently switched to ink (yellow or grey) where the gold/silver metallic seal used to be. Effective tactic really - make it as ugly as it would be printed on your dot matrix printer at home. Now even if you order one you do not want one!

I also agree about Vista Millennium Edition (windows 7) - just forget about it.

I truly miss being an MCSE(ngineer) rather than having a flood of unknown and therefore worthless mcitp and mcts designators. Now both the tangible and intangible benefits of this certification program are gone.

Please do not stop sending the welcome ekits and make them chargeable. It was nice to have the kits before being shipped from the Microsoft office and is an acknowledgement for your hard work. Printing the certificate is not like having the actual certificate that we get from Microsoft office. Thanks and please ITS GOOD TO BE GREEN BUT NOT ALWAYS....the total idea of accessing and downloading certificate degrades the value of taking a Microsoft exam and not being getting recognised and i personally feel the printable copy will be nothing more than an A4 paper. Thanks and please re-consider...

This Agood Idea But really I miss honor without the paper certification.

This is a terrible idea that under-values the whole value of the program. The certificate is what tells the rest of the world about your certification, being printed on an in house printer just tells the world how much Microsoft values the income of the program rather the importance of it.

Being green conscious is good but not at the cost of everything else useful.

To MS Management Broad,

Please remember your objectives.

Win - Win the deal

Drive - Drive Customer Satisfaction

Grow - Grow adoption and market

These objectives make MS guys/gals doing a lot of things to make customers happy.

But at that time, you are doing something to make us ANGRY!

How can I relate this new decision to MS Corp objectives?

I just feel that this decision is going to satisfy one or two people score card.

These people only do something to make their score card "Going Green".

This is not "One MS". This decision will make huge trouble to all MS front line people. Every customers will ask MS why there is a new annoying decision. This will make customer not to encourage MS cert.

A lot of gossip in the market discussing how "Stupid" it is.

Please consider it seriously and carefully.

If it is really a mistake, please stand up and admit it.

We will forgive it.

Victor Tong
MCP from NT4 to W2K8 (More than 11 years supporting MS cert)

In future, client/own company will questioned the validation of our certification since we can only print it ourselves with our own printer and no recognition from Microsoft.

Thanks for Microsoft so called "Go Green" decision.

This is an absolute disgrace on microsoft’s behalf.

I'm quite annoyed by having to PAY for my certificates. It cost me personally over $20000 to achieve my MCSA together with Comptia A+. I feel Microsoft should offer either certificate option free of charge, it's not like they can't afford it! Fair enough you should have to pay for replacements if you lose or damage your certificate (not if it's the postal services fault though) but you should be entitled to a genuine certificate as they add alot of value to a portfolio.

hi,
i am in India here press house are can't gives us the the print out of certificates because of some legal rules

First complaint: digital content must always be validated but certificates neither logos are digitally signed.

Second complaint: digital graphic content should have several sizes but 5 MB for each certificate (only "really big" size) and logos are really too small for using it.

Personally I am really against the concept of charging people for paper certificates. Frankly, for the time and investment that is made in obtaining the certificates. the First paper certificate requested should be FREE. If a second request is made then it is okay to charge for duplicates. Also the wallet card is important, I have been interviewing for several GS jobs and in all of them they asked to see my Microsoft wallet card.

I know this is political incorrect, But I don't give a dam about carbon footprints and all that environmental BS. This is just a way for Microsoft to increase it's profits while providing less services to it's customers and MCP professionals.

There is a reason why when you graduate from a college or ANY program in fact you are given an paper certificate, it is tangible item. Digital certificates ARE not tangible. There are some that say you can print it yourself, the fact remains it will NEVER look as professional as the one you will get Microsoft.

IMHO

Reduce cost of exam amount of handling/posting fee, then it is green!

And by the way, there is "GOLD" color in certificate, how to he**** do you think we can print gold?

This Go Greedy initiative is a really bad idea. I hope MS will come to their mind and steps away from this move. Printed certificate is really a worthy thing. Not to mention that I like my MCSE certificate signed by Bill Gates, while when I go to digital one I can print my OLD MCSE cert with Steve Ballmer's signature. C'mon.

Microsoft should deduct the cost of sending the cert and then anyone wanting one can add the cost back in if they want one sent. That way people who aren't bothered save on the costs and those that want one pay the normal price. Otherwise people will see this as a money saving exercise.

I have been MCP since 1999 (Windows NT), then Windows 2000, Windows 2003 and now MCITP - Enterprise Windows Server 2008.

Over these years, the MCP program has been losing and losing its benefits. Cool label pins are no more, together with the Free Technet subscriptions, and now this.

Hey Microsoft people, we are no dumbs. It is not a "going green" project. It is a "going cheap" project. You want to maximize benefits, and it is reasonable. But are you sure you are going to maximize benefits when the "going cheap" project?

Let me state it clearly: over the years, I have passed 14 MCP exams. And I shall NEVER take any other exam if I can get no benefit.

Downloadable certificates? My God, they look like if you make it with Photoshop.

Digital wallet cards? Sure, let me show it to an employer or colleague. It always nice to see people laughting in your face.

Please reconsider it, please keep on sending the cool wallet cards and Paper Certificates with the signature of old uncle Bill. This at least. And it would be great if you start sending Label Pins again.

Otherwise... Well, you will not see a single cent from me... And most of my colleagues in my company think the same way.

I am not very happy with this announcement. The fees for the testing are not "cheap"... and one of the bennefits is having a good looking certificate and wallet card. To end this is TERRIBLE... and to charge to have it shipped is even worse!! Why doesn't MS learn?? They keep this trend up (first Vista now this to it's supporting staff) and they're going to push everyone to Google or the like.

Stop investing money in crap like BING and offer great support and bennefits to people who campaign for you!!

MS;this not fair @ all.I just upgraded to mcitp last month which makes me count myself lucky.I just pity the wishing mcp hopefuls.
@ all;How can we object this?

Ken Rosen wrote: "With over 2 million MCPs out there, any change make is likely to upset some percentage of the community, and we’d likely hear from some of them here. That said—we certainly are watching and listening and absolutely will pay very close attention to our customer satisfaction reports."

Almost 50 days after first "going green" entry on this blog, MS got 322 comments here and still counting!. There are tens more under other going green posts.

Isn't it time to "pay very close attention to customer satisfaction"?

A while back there was a company that was soooo big they forgot about the people that made them that way, the customer. This company produced products that people really didnt want or like, but hey, who else were they going to buy from right, this company was so big they were almost the only game in town. That was company was General Motors. Microsoft, learn from history, listen to your customers and the people that support you like all of us MCPs. The general populace already doesnt like you, they are simply waiting for a viable alternative. I sure hope you guys wake up before its too late.

I believe this decision does not consider some fundamental points and consideration.

1. How many MS certificates that the decision maker hold?

2. How often the decision maker will use these certs for their job seeking?

3. How often the decision maker will use MS cert in their daily works?

4. Did decision maker include their MS certs in their yearly review as measurement?

I believe if they are gone through these points. They will not construct a plan to stop paper cert by default.

Please think serious before you roll out a high impact plan. You just said "pay close attention to customer satisfaction report".

Report is a tool to measure the result.

But the most import thing is the fundamental of the plan. If the plan itself contains some fundamental issues (e.g. impact to ALL MCPs satisfaction).

Why you go ahead and roll it out??

And then waiting for report results!!

If report told you that "Stop paper cert" is good, you keep going to do it???

Did you think that report itself also contains risk and error??

Satisfaction report may not reflect the actual / real figures.

Please balance and think it seriously.

I just find this decision contains million holes and impacts which does not consider and handle it very well.

One again to show the general MS practice. Haven't complete necessary test or drill and then release it.

Vista is the same. After RTM, release a SP1 which seems to remove all of my SP0 and re-install it as SP1.

Exchange 2007 RTM is the same, some performance (e.g. mail queue performance version buckets) have not tuned and roll it out. No UI for Public Folder administrator.
Some settings in UI are not working.

My personal feeling is that in this MS generation they are rush to roll out everything without a well preparation to the market.

A lot of my customer shared their comment that please wait their software release SP1, SP1 is the real RTM. After a public debugging and testing period complete, SP1 is the real RTM for the market.

That is the current MS image.

It does not matter. You can ahead w/ your plan like Vista RTM roll out.

UAC will be enabled by default in Vista RTM.

UAC default option changed in SP1. Why ??

You think it yourself.

Hi all guys worldwide,

recently MS has announced "Going Green" but this actually means that in next coming years MS will no longer will be usable in Market "MS will be Going RED" worldwide, from now on take this an idea from MS and I tell to every one of you MPCs that no longer consider for MS certifications and go for MAC and Linux.

Hi all

I am holding MCT certificate for 4 years ,It's really shameful.
My students are so sad about it, they lost their hope to show their certificates to others ... it is not green .

where is my last comments Jul 18 09 it is been deleted, I think now MS cannot face the fact what people want and what they are going to do next? Microsoft management leader should know about the situation other wise their business will go down soon.

Hi, First of all I would mention here that the idea to 'GO GREEN' is really appreciatable. It is the need of the hour. But definitely it should not be at the cost of poor MCPs/MCTSs. Being a MCT since 2002, I would say that the joy of holding a certificate & the wallet card send by Microsoft and signed by Bill Gates; is different when we take a normal print out. My students are disappointed. I would like to suggest that Microsoft should be fair enough to reduce the exam price as they are ones benefit out of the idea 'GO GREEN'. It can put some smiles of satisfaction on the face of people who wish to take the MCP/MCTS exams. Thanks

My company requires me to submit all my documents and now i cant submit my MCP certificate to them.

its not GOING GREEN, its GOING MORE RICH by additional costs, THUMBS DOWN!!!

I live in a developing country (Sri Lanka) and in the interviews they will look for the printed certificates. In the last interview I faced I have given the printout of the Marks certificate since because I couldn't get the certificate on time. I am quite disappionted that Microsoft has discontinued the free shipment of the certifcate. I beg Microsoft to think about the students in the developing countries and not just Americans. I only earn little income as my salary(only around 450US$ per month afterall working as DBA). Please kindly allow free shipment of certificates at least for the developing countries. I need to take some more exams as well but I am financially struggling. I admit the fact that only Microsoft allows for the exams US$50for the developing countries. Please continue to do the good work I need to survive in the struggling economic condition.

Hey Sarah,

This idea is great for me, everytime I got my cert I'd have to scan it into PDF to email anywhere anyway. So this gives me a PDF copy of it when I get certified and not having to wait for my certificate to come in the mail. Thanks it even looks good too.

I applaud the going green, however it should be an option for us consumers. Also, if it was no cost to recieving the mailed cert before, there is no reason to suddenly charge now. This makes a great company look a little petty.

Is M$ going to reduce price of certifications now that they are going to charge extra for printing and shipping and handling certificates?

Vivian,

Be slow to jubilate about the PDF Cert till you download one! If i can read your mind, you have not downloaded(dl) one!
I have dl one and what you don't know is that each PDF cert is more that 5MB in size! Just one and if you have more than 5 certs like many members here to email then that would be talking of 25MB+ of attach!
Very interesting indeed, i come from a country where bandwidth is a problem because we are still using satellite tech for internet which makes it slow and trust me, it will take you along time to upload that. It will also take your potential employer along time to download your mail that is if you are luck for their servers to accept such big attachment.
I also hit a rock as i wanted to request for my MCITP Certs, i was required to ONLY use cards(Master, Visa, e.t.c) i can't get my certs because i don't have any of those cards and to have one in my country, you should be a rich man/woman who doesn't even need to do MS Certifications.
For heaven's sack MS, why can't you put into consideration all your customers globally! We are not all from Europe and MS has done its best to dominate our countries but i think they have got it wrong this time because there is going to be a revolution to OpenSource from what am seeing.
I want to request Sarah Grant and the MS moderators to advise me on how to pay for the my certs. I paid for the examination, sat for it and passed but i can't get my Cert yet i also have the 9 dollars you have imposed!
Please revise this decision and know that the previous system worked so well.
Waiting for your reply!

It is really a great idea, now we do not need to submit our original cewrtificates or even scan them, we can just download and submitted it.

To all MCPs,

If it is possible to make crowed on the street and demonstrate for the rights? also it is possible to make crowed in this forum, I suggest you all if you want that M$ bring back the old system? so do not go for any more certification, lets make this a promise world wide that no one will go for certification, until M$ did not bring back the old system,

Dear Shujauddin,

I will stop my planned MS cert until they bring back the old system.

And I will not suggest my customers going to MS products until I am happy to the arrangement.

Myself and a friend appeared on 24th June 2009 for the prometric 70-270 paper. Both passed the exam, both registered on the MCP login site same day in the evening , the disgusting part is that my friend just recieved the MCP card and printed certificate whereas i have no choice but to download the e-certificate! So much for the carbon footprint hypocrisy by microsoft.How some get the card/printed cert and others don't is amazing and idiotic!

Well having work so hard to achieve a success, i dont see the harm in having a card representing your result. at least this should be given only once. i always want to carry further more when i look at my card and its more professional. we should go green but also not penalise everyone.whether its in silicon or plastic, an award is given after much effort and it is deserved.

The hard copies were supposed to lower fraud by providing either a watermark or a seal.
Now you can basically create your own certificate in Photoshop and walk to an interview. It will be more work for the employer/team lead to verify that the MCP number belongs to the actual candidate and verify the transcripts to make sure the candidate actually took the tests he/she claims.
This doesn't make sense to me at all, it lowers the value of the exam and the value of the certification. Who would recommend you to print your own money? Probably the same person that would recommend you to print your own university diploma. It is non-sense, perfect for fraud, more work for the employers, less value for the certification.

I am also disappointed about the MCP knowledge base taken offline. I found quite a few articles there that were not part of the public MSDN or TechNet. Most of the time those articles were not in the public eye as there were bugs/behaviors that were being corrected on a hotfix or as part of a service pack.

Now we'll have to call tech support all the time as they will be the only ones with access to this internal KB.

Lizet: Take a look at that: "Dave, I’m curious: to which removed benefits are you referring? I’m not aware of any benefits having been removed in years.
Posted by: Ken Rosen (Microsoft) | Jun 10, 2009 at 1:34 pm"

They have discontinued 6 benefits since December 2008. Their average is one discontinued benefit per month:)

Don't take MS or Ken Rosen words seriously. They can discontinue any benefit immediately or in next 30 days - with announcement on blog only. They take no responsibility for failures, for unavailable MCP page, for misleading (frauding) informations on their or their partners pages...

Hi Lizet,

I understand your concern about the certificates, and I agree. We don't recommend that you use the certificates as proof of your certification, as they can be easily forged. (This has always been true.)

That's why we're launching virtual business cards for MCPs next month--you can use those to reliably authenticate an MCP's credentials, much better than you can with a certificate.

I'm very sorry to hear that you miss the knowledge base. Unfortunately, Microsoft is retiring that system altogether.

I wish we were able to still offer that one--there really was no reason for it to go away other than the simple fact that the product support team that ran it decided that it didn't fit into their team's charter, and we don't have the expertise in the Learning team to keep it going on our own. We tried to convince the team to keep offering it for at least a while longer, but usage was very, very, very low: you must have been one of the few to take advantage of it while it lasted! (There you go, insight into the challeging inner workings of a big company)

I don’t think that Microsoft bare much coast for Welcome Kit. I like wallet card and its easy to show to anyone and carry when wherever go. Also Welcome Kit was encouraging to candidates. Microsoft still needs to start Welcome Kit. But don’t know what Microsoft’s management will do.

It's OK downloading Certificate..But I couldn't change it into JPG format. When I open it in photoshop, there's a box acquiring password. I put my exam ID , It doesn't work. How can I change it into JPG fromat?

Real reasons are here

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/j...

Eventhough I appreciate MS's effort to go green, this ploy of stopping the welcome kits does not seem to justify MS's intent. It would make sense if MS stopped all paper pamphlets and advertisements/informational literature, and provide them only in digital format.
But by deceiving people who paid and worked hard for the certification seems disingenuous on MS's part.

As part of the official statement MS says that it has taken this action to satisfy its commitment to the environment and the customer's demands.

But take a look at the 100s of comments about this issue on all forums on the internet. The overwhelming majority of test takers do not support this initiative. We feel we are being penalized.
Adding insult to the injury now MS is charging around $10 for shipping a certificate. This makes the whole "green initiative" to look like a "green-back initiative" focused on milking more money from hardworking test takers.

In your follow up you bring up a point that having a paper certificate has no impact on the authenticity as anyone can do it. I agree. But consider this, making a digital photoshop certificate is far easier to forge than a paper certificate, that adds the paper quality etc into the picture. In third world countries, forging a paper certificate is much difficult than a digital one.

MS's attitude to its customers is very disappointing and is discouraging me from taking further certifications from MS.

I hope MS accepts, apologizes and remedies its folly by restarting the welcome kit delivery to certification takers.

You're going GREEN, it's your choice. We're going GREEN, it's our option. You're going GREEN, at our expenses, you're clueless.

Very Disapointing to hear, after so much effort and monay, the reward is only a digital certificate. Please go back to as it was before! We desurve it.

M very Upset with MS.... The wallet card meant a lot to me.

PLz tell me that,Whenever this virtual Card will come into Action..is their any way to take out the hard copy of this card...in the same format & material as of the old wallet cards...........

If you want to go GREEN. Remove this paper thing from the scratch. Why you still provide paper Certifications on shipping charges. I agree with Soup "Going green at others expenses". So when is this Virtual Card is coming. Early August is here!!!

AutoTriggered_MCP: The virtual cards are coming this month--currently on target for launching on the 17th, look for an announcement here on B2L.

As for not offering paper at all--I hope someday we can do that, but for now (as many readers have pointed out) many of our customers still have a strong preference to have a paper certificate, so we are providing the option (along with a disincentive for ordering in the form of a shipping and handling fee).

I've taken a couple of MS exams in the past and still planning to continue upgrading my MS credentials but with this news I got disappointed with MS.

If you are not going to send paper certs why don't you guys simple reduce the cost of the exams to end up the discussions here. That will be a very good option in return to us.

If MS will still continue with this but will not reduce the cost of the exams. I will end up studying MS products through CBT Nuggets and other computer based training BUT I WILL NOT TAKE ANY MS EXAMS. Because papers certs and wallet cards are live proof of your credentials.

Without them (paper certs / wallets) exams are useless to me because the real world expertise are the skills that will take you to the top.

Bring back the welcome kit....at least offer the wallet card as an option...this is silly. If Microsoft is going to listen to one group, it should be the MCP's. We have a finger on the pulse of the market because we live in it everyday in the real world, not in some "market test" environment. Time to get your ducks in a row guys.

It'd be nice if I could even download a certificate!

How long does it usually take them to fix a problem with their server?

As for not offering paper at all–I hope someday we can do that, but for now (as many readers have pointed out) many of our customers still have a strong preference to have a paper certificate, so we are providing the option (along with a disincentive for ordering in the form of a shipping and handling fee).

Ken!!

I think you forget that your customers do not have strong preferences only to have physical certificates but also have strong preferences have Welcome Kits and wallet cards, if you can read all the comments in here, it is almost 99.9% that people are asking for physical certs and welcome kits and wallet cards, do you???

Well, I for one am extremely upset. Yes, I do know companies that like seeing the card, and Yes, It is very easy to simply print out your transcripts to give to someone. I think its Microsoft’s way of just trying to be cheap. I have my paper cert and they are freaking cheap. Everyone that I have shown to says they look cheap. Boy, hear is a good question? I wonder why everyone is saying the same thing, and I wonder why so many MCP's are made on this site.
When my MCSE friends pulled out there cards, it was like WOW, I can't wait to get mine, and now we all get screwed. Yea, I downloaded the pathetic MS emblem, At least they could have put a little effort into making it look cool like the cards did, but that would only cost more money as well. I only spent nearly a $1000.00 on the MCSE like everyone else did and look at what we get for it. Cheap paper.
“Tomek” Nothing personal, but your full of it. What Microsoft should have done, w as at least given us an option. When you tell people that your are MCSE and they are like “what???, what is that?” You pull out your little wallet size card and guess what? That explains it all. Instead of trying to explain everything. See, I can’t do that because someone at MS doesn’t care about the MCP’s.
Another question? “We are still making the paper option available AND we now making the digital option available too.” If you are doing this, why can’t MS at least give their MCPs the option to allow us to have our plastic?
“Fiundin” Sorry man, I already called and talked to MS myself and they no longer offer it. That is why I am being a total prick on this thing.
Microsoft, you suck for what you did and your killing something you had going good, I think. Having a digital cert is good, but Don’t kill an Icon for achievement. Something that so many of us strived to get. It’s like an engineers bragging right. I was still planning on achieving my MCTS SQL 2005 cert, but I don’t think I am going to waste my time with it. Learn the stuff and move on. Having the oracle cert will be sufficed.

I also need to applogize to "Tomek" and to “Fiundin”, I was so darn made that I did not pay attention to the layout.

Like many others, I have to say I am very disappointed that taking six tests to get my MCITP:SA and MCITP:EA results in six cheesy form e-mails saying congratulations with no follow-up paper certs or wallet card.

Clearly the only green that MS is concerned about is the money that represents their bottom line. In their effort to save a few dollars and get some enviro-cred they are cheapening the prestige and hard work of attaining certifications.

I can't believe microsoft stopped sending out quality certs and wallet cards under the guise of going green. What next, is microsoft going to do away with the TechEd party? oh wait... maybe start laying some people off? oh wait... maybe you guys can hand out your virtual business cards at next year's TechEd party, I'm guessing it's going to be held in the ninth ward.

On Whose suggestion...Ms took this Huge decision of stopping the welcome Kits............

B'coz 99.99% of people r Freakin Out by ur Stupid(sorry) decision.

OK........wat u have done, u have done...

But atleast u should have provided an option of ordering wallet Cards..
Just like Certificates...

The wallet Card carries great Importance in this Market
...........Don't u Understand this
....... Do we need to clear this again n again..

This is utter crap...

At first, I had the thought that Microsoft acknowledged that their certifications are no longer worth the paper on which they are printed; but after reading Sarah's comments, I believe this is an actual improvement. There really should be some better communication about this change, rather than just to say it is an effort to reduce Microsoft's carbon footprint with a link to this blog. Emphasize more to the masses the social networking benefits and work being done to improve the transition to digital certificates.

I live in a developing country (India) and in the interviews they will look for the printed certificates. In the last interview I faced I have given the printout of the Marks certificate since because I couldn’t get the certificate on time. I am quite disappionted that Microsoft has discontinued the free shipment of the certifcate. I beg Microsoft to think about the students in the developing countries and not just Americans.
Please kindly allow free shipment of certificates at least for the developing countries. I need to take some more exams as well but I am financially struggling. I admit the fact that only Microsoft allows for the exams US$50for the developing countries. Please continue to do the good work I need to survive in the struggling economic condition.

Hello, fellow MCPs. I am very disappointed with this decision, in Russia i just can't e-mail link to my transcript HR, not only bears roam our streets, but here many places without internet connection at all. I can't bring self-printed copy of cert with me - how i can explain what is it? Self-made documents looks like fake to EVERYONE.
I just started 2008 track to Server admin with first exam. But i think, this is my last exam. Like many others, i can't use virtual cards, not all world - USA. We in developing countries need hard copies, this is our lifestyle here. All we need is love and papers about everything.))
M$ - we are people, who convice to bye your software and later we implement it by yourself. And we give you our hard-earned money for exams.
And what we get? Digital Business Card? My god, thanks.)))
May be we should pay you for exam digital money scans? We could go green too.))
Why am i not switched to Linux long ago?

I'am ok with this change even though the printed copies are not nearly as nice as the once you got sent to you.

However what I think kinda bad is the transcript sharing tool on the mcp page, WHERE DID THE DESIGNERS GO? I mean just black text on white background, and I am supposed to show-off to my new employer with this page, RIGHT! Shape this page please, at least to look like the printed version.

BR,
Magnus

Hi Ken Rosen,

Surely we need to know, what is really going on as MCPs! Its now August 21 and you can see the message below post here on response to my message.
Well first, its a month and i've not recieved my documents (Server 2009) i ordered for at a total of $14.90 USD. I come from Africa and before these changes M$ come up with, we used to get our kits in 5 days upon ordering. Yes 5 days but its now a month after we are paying extra money for those kits. What is happening.
Second, we were reliable informed here that August 17, 2009 the Virtual_Business_Cards will be out for us to appreciate! But there is total no news on that issue! Tell us what we are left with and when we should expect to appreciate those VB cards.
Cheers

Hi krsk, we appreciate the note! Unfortunately, the wallet cards (and the welcome kits they were a part of) are now a thing of the past.

The virtual business cards will be live next month. I realize that means you’ll wait an extra couple of weeks for your business card credentials, and I apologize for that. We’ll get it launched as quickly as we can, and I hope you’ll find it as much of an inspiration (if not more so!) than the physical wallet cards.

Posted by: Ken Rosen | Jul 14, 2009 at 8:11 am

here just look that microsoft is happy for its work with its new designed web blog, it would better if you worked and launch the VB card instead, it does not matter for me how you get fashioned your web sites when I will be failed demonstrating as MCP but having nothing in hand, you just making your salary, and it will be a good idea for your appraisal performance launching VB card at the end of this year, keep this idea for you benefit.

This team is unable to make anything right and on time. They have failed with every change in last months. I am sure sooner or later things will be fixed here also - MCPs are really important for long term market "domination". Ms was able to fix Windows Desktop and soon will fix Windows Mobile. It might take bit longer with MSL. So far it looks nobody from above this team knows what is there going on. I am sure Ballmer would throw some chairs on you for you work :)

I think they are not able to even answer our questions

Where are Virtual Business Cards? Why are you spending money saved by cutting of our benefits on second holiday trip? Wouldn't it be better to at least fix your mcp site? I wasn't able to open my transcript today. Of course you don't care about it, and don't have time to do it from another Bus Tour.

I don't remember when I was able to use MCP site without problems.

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I saw the new digital certificates - I don't like them. I too think this is only another measure to cut costs. "Green IT", sure...

I spent a lot of money in exam fees and classrom trainings. I spent a lot of time and worked hard for passing the exams and all I get is just a "download-and-print-it-yourself" otherwise pay another fee ??? What will we get in exchange?

"... show them immediately that you are an MCP" A hiring manager still wants to see PAPER, no digital certificate.

And just another thought...
I passed another certification (not Microsoft) and I got a very nice paper certificate to hang up at my office. You now what? When I look at it, I'm very proud of it. And I can show it to others. :-)

Is the MS certification nothing to be proud of? "Not worth the paper"?
Very Poor...

Nice Joke Microsoft! I'm MCP, MCTS, MCDST, MCSA and now working on MCITP:SE. But without any real Certs, without the Wallet Card this course would be my last one.
Greetings from Switzerland

Without the Welcome Kit, this examination goes meaningless.....
I am planning to get MCITP:EA and I had taken some courses for preparing the exam
Also, you guys charged us for the examination fees.
But what for now? You guys just use a Green Policy to hide out the truth that you guys want to get more money from the candidates!
If it is a Green Policy, why you guys would offer a printed Certificate with shipping and handling fees? It also consume papers from you guys. And you guys just said us (the candidates) not support with the Green Environmental Policy!! Craps!!!
Basically, for what the candidates assumed, taking the exam with examination fees should have the printed certificate and validation cards (you guys call wallet card) included. If such materials not included, so why we should paid for the exam?
I had finished two exams and already paid for the remaining exams, I can't quit no matters what new policies you guys go. But I'm 100% sure that this would be my first, and the last examination with Microsoft!!

I'm sorry you feel that way and while I wasn't part of the decision to discontinue the welcome kits, let me talk about it a little in hopes of shedding some light.

The green policy is not about getting more money from candidates like yourself. From what I heard, we've actually haven't raised exam prices in a very long time which is something I don't think other companies can say. We strive to make exams as accessible as possible.

Also saving on paper is just the tip of the Going Green policy - it's not just the paper, but rather the shipping. If you ever looked up how much waste goes into air mailing items then you can start to understand why it's important that we take steps to minimize how much we ship.

Lastly, we had to look at the overall problem and make one decision and we realized that a lot of people (in fact a huge majority) didn't do anything with their welcome kits. This means that we printed a lot of paper and cardboard and shipped a huge amount of wasted material. Any monies we may have initially saved went into setting up the on demand printing process and the VBC so it's not like there was a lot of initial cost savings. However, we saved enough material and transportation waste to make this a good thing for the environment.

Now I recongnize that while a majority of MCPs may not have found value with the card, there are many vocal and valued MCPs on this blog who are very angry that the card is gone and we are hearing you. We immediately created ability to download your cert and setup the process to order a printed cert from us. We also started the VBC not as a replacement for the wallet card but to also expand benefits so that we weren't cutting too many benefits. Initially it was difficult to include the wallet card into that process but we'll take a second look at it. Already we have it in the planning process - but unfortunately I can't promise you anything at the moment.

If you want to see something change, I urge all of you to continue to be vocal on this blog. Tell us what you want to see done and we'll get it done. It may not happen overnight, but will as sure as hell do our best to get it done.

you want to tell you what we want to see done and will get it done? it is almost 3 months that we are waiting for VBC to be at least released on the site to see how it looks like,

IF WE ORDER FOR CERTIFICATES ,THE WALLET CARD WILL ALSO BE SEND BY MICROSOFT OR NOT

I don't think you will. Because they have the never lauched VBC.

Reply to Erwin:
Thanks for your concern about our feelings. Yes, you are right that we need to look after our poor Earth. We done too many harmful actions to the plantnet.

But, paper certificates are the basic materials to certify a person archeivement. And here I would like to make suggestions (not arguing, because arguing here would not solve the problems, but suggestions can).
Erwin, as you said most people would never look into the materials within the Welcome Kit, and that would waste much more resources if you guys continue to send the Welcome Kit out, why don't you guys just send out the certificates and the wallet card, with one A4 letter to indicate that the Welcome Kit information can be accessible through the MCP website (If that's not the suggestions, just forgive me because I myself never received any Welcome Kits from Microsoft).
For the mailing of the Welcome Kit issue, why don't you consider about issue the package through the regional Microsoft Office (I reliease that Microsoft must have office over the World)? So, every Welcome Kit would be mailed with local delivery, and that should resolve the Air Mail from US cause CO2 emittion issue.
Hope I can getting reply soon and thank you very much for your reply.

It is a good idea to try to use regional Microsoft offices to send out the kits. However, it then becomes a *huge* logistical problem. Instead of trying to manage one or two distribution centers, we'd have to manage one in every country. That's over 200 which would each require people to manage the process. Each would have to have their own stock of certificate paper and plastic for the wallet card, and each would have to have a printing process. It would solve some of the air shipping environmental problems but we don't have the ability to set something up like that. Maybe in the future, but at the moment that proposal far exceeds our capabilities.

hmmm...
one more concerns and suggestions.
When will the VBC launched? Because I had passed all the tests for MCITP, SA
and I'm finding nowhere within the MCP site that I can create my VBC (the one that used for replacement of the wallet card, and at least, some proof from you guys about my achievement...)
Reply to the office sending cert issue. How about shipping through ships instead of planes? Because from my observation from other forums about this Going Green Policy, most MCPs are angry with no cert and wallet cards provided by Microsoft after they finished the exam, so I think we don't mind waiting a little longer for getting the Welcome Kits. (And as far as I know, ships would be much environmental friendly than the planes, isn't it?) Then you guys can continue running the one or two distribution centers, saving tons of paper (by only provide the certs, wallet cards and one A4 letter about checking Welcome Kits information from MCP websites) and decrease the CO2 emitted by the planes, and most important thing is, each MCP would be happy and get a great experience from Microsoft (aren't you guys alway try to achieve this goal?).
Thank you very much for your reply Erwin and hope I can get back from you soon. ^^

December 8th - I'm making a post today about this.

Like I said many times, I wasn't in the discussion when they made the decision. I can check with ops to see what they went through in the decision, but ultimately I think the decision to stop sending welcome kits is done. The question right now is whether we'll offer wallet cards on demand like we do with paper certs.

Please stop using "green" as an excuse. It is not true, and you haven't provided any numbers about it. I have asked MSlearning about study that proves it is greener solution. You should start from making such study.

You are keeping shipping of paper certs so only plastic card is gone. The question is how much pollution is done by plastic cards. I will tell you, for 1000kg of plastic up to 6000kg of CO2 emission are made. Doesn't sound good. But in place of simple plastic card you are putting new servers for VBC. Take a look at this MS Site:

http://www.microsoft.com/environment/greenit/Pr...

here Micorosft says that one server means almost 5000kg of CO2 each year.

Could you say again that VBC are greener? Do you know what greenwashing means? Do you know what would have happen if organisations like greenpeace could see your argumentation?

Have you measured how much pollution is done by two Bus Tours?

I completely agree.
Pretending that this is for "the environment" is crap. With all the money that you get from our exam fees, you can't even send us a piece of plastic? Come on. this is ridiculous

Virtual Business Cards, Where are they?

I'm from Egypt and I want to get on the card and the path of paper certificates is not the way solution to the digital certificate is available through the application on the site
Why have this message sent to me?

I am a MCPD, MCTS and MCITP with NOTHING tangible to show for it unless... I PAY MORE! Ok that is a dissapointment, however I can live with that, but what I don't understand is the fact that I can't order my own Wallet Card! You must add options not take options away Microsoft!

All my friends told me about what I receive once I am certified and I really looked forward to receiving this awesome package from Microsoft ONLY for MCP's - BIG DISAPPOINTMENT IT WAS WHEN NOTHING ARRIVED AND NOW I CAN'T EVEN ORDER MY OWN WALLET CARD ANYMORE!

Is it really worth it to DEVALUE your certifications by lowering your way of saying congratulations!? Do you think that little of your MCPs? Maybe we should start a website where you can send your wife digital flowers instead of real tangible beautiful flowers and see the excitement in her eyes!

Your mistake WILL cost you in the long run unfortunately. Don't for one second think that MCPs are stupid and will believe this going green thing as an excuse to cutting costs. It sounds and feels like a way of lowering expenses in a tough economic time.

Please bring back the Wallet Card - I will pay for it!

Thank you.

As others have said: This is defintiely another example of cutting costs while claiming the moral high ground. The bottom line is I'll now be relying on the printable transcript and sharing code rather than the cert since anyone could knock that up and print it themselves.

Regards

Karl.

I've just passed my first Microsoft exam. I can't believe that MS are trying to justify a cost-cutting exercise by using the carbon footprint excuse. I get an error every time I try to order a hard copy of my cert, and I'm left with a feeling of disappointment and wondering why I put all that effort into studying and taking the exam, when I should have a sense of achivement. The people I work for are proud of my achievement and want to display my qualifications in the entry hall of the company, but I can't bring myself to present the owner of the company with something that looks like I knocked it up in photoshop. What exactly does 'the application encountered a technical problem and not able to complete your order' mean?

They are shit!!! i worked hard and managed to get MCAD and MCTS certification and when i try to order certificate, i get only error page!! now i am really feeling that y i studied this shit!! they are telling us to clear cookies etc!! here all will have atleast 1 MCP, dont they know this simple thing??? when they get error at first time wont they search for it?? does microsoft things us as a stupid computer geeks?????

Why is it that Microsoft introduce a Digital Download that does not work, every time i lauch the link i get SQL errors, and talk about the ability to pay for a printed option but do not provide the link or means to order it.

come on Microsoft it was easier to pass my MCSE+M than it is to order Certs through your website.... this i expect from other vendors not MS, end result is nothing to show for all your hard work sweat blood tears and not to mention the fortune already outlaid to get that far.

PS not all of us want to adopt the web 2.0 social networking craze, i personally prefer to old school approach of showing my certs to any prospective hiring manager in the interview, in the 10 years i have been certified not once have i been asked for a digital version...

its a shit!!! site always giving error!!! waste of money to write exam and waste of energy to learn!!! wat is use of certification if we cant show it to anyone??? i need certificate and having problem in mcp site from 2009!!!!!!!!!